[chbot] Kickstart in FPGA course...

Wed Feb 16 03:28:07 GMT 2011

Aaargh

I was searching for the Altera cheapie dev kit and found it soon after hitting 
Send.

BeMicro FPGA on a USB stick.  Comes in two forms: 
http://www.altera.com/b/nios-bemicro-evaluation-kit.html
USD49 for the smallest or USD99 for the version with SD and Ethernet 
interfaces

This seems to have an excellent development/debugging environment too.

On Wednesday 16 February 2011 16:17:35 Mark Atherton wrote:
> I am planning to bring 4 DVDs of Quartus II (Altera dev env) on Monday.
>
> I am hoping that Mike can do the same with the equivalent Xilinx dev env.
>
> One thing I noticed last meeting was that people were far to polite
> to take anything - "only if no one else wants them". However, as soon
> as I put the items in the garbage can all pretexts of politeness
> vanished. I wonder if there is a skip anywhere near by, we could have
> an very open, fruitful meeting in it !
>
> -Mark
>
> At 04:03 p.m. 16/02/2011, you wrote:
> >On Tuesday 15 February 2011 18:28:00 Mark Atherton wrote:
> > > The idea of a short course to get people started should cover the
> > > basics.
> >
> >Sounds like a good place to start...
> >
> > > Bear in mind that total documentation for modern, complex FPGAs run
> > > into the thousands of pages - the trick is to learn how to navigate
> > > or where to look to find how to navigate the data.
> >
> >Yes, I dabbled with FPGAs 15 years ago. They're far more complex now, but
> > if you're working at the VHDL level then most of that is hidden.
> >
> > > I went with Altera rather than Xilinx because of it's usage at Tait
> > > and the associated knowledge base - that is a big thing for me as it
> > > could help open them up as a client.
> > >
> > >  From a pragmatic point of view don't forget to look at the number of
> > > leaded pins and pin pitch of the less complex parts. BGA while cute
> > > are difficult to manage on 2 layer PCBs.
> > >
> > >  From a beginners viewpoint, a cheap CPLD is probably OK just to see
> > > what you can do with the technology.
> > >
> > > ... and so the Altera vs Xilinx battle raged.
> >
> >I really don't think this is such a big deal for logic dabbling. Sure, the
> >toolset layout is different (different workflows) but the basic principles
> >are the same. So too is any VHDL etc. so the learning probably works out
> > the same.
> >
> >The differences seem to show themselves more once you start running code
> > on internal processors etc.
> >
> >Well lets not limit the fight to Xilinx vs Altera. Don't forget Actel and
> >Lattice!
> >
> >Lattice have a nice wee demo board
> >(http://www.latticesemi.com/products/developmenthardware/developmentkits/x
> >p2breviadevelopmentkit.cfm) for USD49. This comes with demos to run an
> > 8-bit micro etc. It uses a parallel
> >cable for programming though :-( or USB for an extra 149 :-( and Windows
> >only :-(.
> >
> >Actel have a nice USD99
> >http://www.actel.com/products/hardware/devkits_boards/smartfusion_eval.asp
> >x
> >
> >This has a hard-wired internal Cortex-M3 ARM CPU + 200k gates etc etc. USB
> >download :-). Linux only available for parts of the toolchain  :-(.. OLED
> >display, Ethernet, DACs and hot and cold running water :-).  Web server
> >software...
> >
> >This hooks up to an Eclipse-based environment for programming/debugging
> >(Windows only) but various support forums indicate some Linux workarounds.
> >
> >The Actel is perhaps a more interesting meld of custom logic + regular CPU
> >programming that many robotics people would want to actually do.
> >
> >Lots of choices though the Actel has some real interesting extensions.
> >
> > > -Mark
> > >
> > > Actually, I do have an old Xilinx board kicking around has never been
> > > powered up and I am secretly hoping that Altera isn't chosen then
> > > someone else gets to talk about something I know little about...
> > >
> > > At 05:38 p.m. 15/02/2011, Mike Field wrote:
> > > >Hi Charles,
> > > >
> > > >It doesn't matter which board, as long as we all use the same tool
> > > > stack.
> > > >
> > > >If anybody wants to get a bespoke board because it has just the
> > > > features you want and the tools you want then you won't be able to
> > > > leverage of off the shared experience and resources of the group when
> > > > it comes to getting your hardware and tools working. You will most
> > > > probably learn a lot more doing it though!
> > > >
> > > >That is why I am most happy if people are using any  Digilent board
> > > > that works with Webpack. The options are:
> > > >
> > > >- Basys2-100k board - AU$97
> > > >No offchip Flash/Ram,
> > > >equivalent to 100,000 logic gates
> > > >some onchip RAM/ROM
> > > >
> > > >- Basys2-250k board - AU$110
> > > >No offchip Flash/Ram
> > > >equivalent to 250,000 logic gates,
> > > >more onchip RAM/ROM
> > > >
> > > >- Nexys2-500k board - AU$172
> > > >16MB Flash, 16MB RAM
> > > >Equivalent to 500,000 logic gates
> > > >even more onchip RAM/ROM
> > > >
> > > >- Nexys2-1200k board - AU$215
> > > >16MB Flash, 16MB RAM
> > > >equivalent to 1,200,000 logic gates
> > > >even more of onchip RAM/ROM
> > > >
> > > >I do have one board to lend if price was a real pain point but they
> > > > were keen to give it ago, but even the cheapest baord one will do a
> > > > lot of stuff (eg drive a PS/2 mouse, Serial port , and VGA, and other
> > > > stuff at the same time)
> > > >
> > > >Anything more than that is getting into really serious money. Likewise
> > > >if everybody else says that Altiris is "da bomb". or is used in the
> > > >local Uni, then I want in on that stuff and will get one for myself.
> > > >
> > > >Another option would be for a tiny CPLD, at AU$30, but if you then pay
> > > >AU$49 for a JTAG cable, it is only $19 less than a board with power
> > > >supply, switches, connectors, clocks and lights on it, and you don't
> > > >have to play around with a breadboard and jumpers. In my book CPLD are
> > > >not really a starter for 10 for a first introduction to programmable
> > > > logic.
> > > >
> > > >I guess that my aim is to  help people with the "This stuff is looks
> > > > to be really cool - why haven't I heard more about these? How do I
> > > > start" sort of problems. Gosh darn it is hard to get started by
> > > > yourself.
> > > >
> > > >STOP READING NOW UNLESS YOU HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO :-)
> > > >
> > > >Here is my experience:
> > > >"Hey, I would love to play with one of those, I can almost afford to
> > > > get one!" Then the problems start...
> > > >
> > > >- WTF is JTAG?
> > > >- Do I need a JTAG programmer?
> > > >- Which programmer for what board?
> > > >- Will this work with that no-cost software?
> > > >- This board has extra RAM, this one has a DIMM socket, this has none!
> > > >What do I want?
> > > >
> > > >Oh, bugger it I'll take a punt on Board X. It's the best I can get in
> > > > my budget. "Holly heck! Check out that postage!" I'll have to wait
> > > > for my pocket money (being a married man and all...)
> > > >
> > > >< Contact distributor, ask a few questions, wait a week or two for the
> > > >board to arrive>
> > > >
> > > >I've got the board.
> > > >- Oh, what drivers to I need?
> > > >- Install drivers and board vendor's tools.
> > > >- But where is the design tools? They are not in the box!
> > > >- How do I get them?
> > > ><Download the tools from the site>
> > > >- Bugger - didn't work with windows 7 (at that time).
> > > >- Install an XP virtual machine.
> > > >- Bugger! I've downloaded the wrong version - I wanted the free one!
> > > ><Download another bunch of files>
> > > >
> > > >Phew! Now have toolkit Installed, but...
> > > >- What's all this licensing crap about?
> > > ><Obtain license and work out how to apply it>
> > > >
> > > >Yay! ready to build something
> > > >- Oh, what settings do I need for the FPGA type on my board?
> > > >- What model/packaging/speed grade is it? Where are the parts
> > > > datasheet? - How do I get the reference projects to compile and
> > > > download? - Hey they compile and download but they don't work! What's
> > > > up? - Where do I get an accurate constraints file? The net names one
> > > > I have doesn't match the I/O connectors in the reference projects!
> > > >
> > > >Gosh, that was to hard, how about I just play with the lights and
> > > >switches.. success!
> > > >- How come  doesn't the system clock work?
> > > >- Oh! It's on a different pin than the tool expects by default!
> > > >Wow. A binary counter. That was bloody epic.
> > > >
> > > >And from then on it was lots of shagging around... but still a lot of
> > > >hard questions!
> > > >- What datasheet do I need for the memory?
> > > >- How can I stuff some test data into flash?
> > > >- Can I make it talk to my PC over USB?
> > > >- Which pin is that USB-to-EPP bridge WRITE  signal on? It's not
> > > >mentioned anywhere in the documentation!
> > > >- Bugger! "Memutil" doesn't seem to work with this flash chip!
> > > >- How do I use this using the C API on the PC!
> > > >- All I want to do is write some data flash from my PC. How hard can
> > > > it be!? ...
> >
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