[GNUz] How does GLU/GNUz differ from CLUG?

[Nick Rout]

On Mon, March 12, 2007 4:58 pm, Nick Rout wrote:
>
> On Mon, March 12, 2007 3:07 pm, Rik Tindall wrote:
>> nick@rout.co.nz wrote:
>>>> Timothy Musson wrote:
>>>>>> Instead, why don't we...
>>>>>> Help folks select and track-down decent hardware.
>>>>
>>>> Would you like editing rights for http://www.hackstop.org ?
>>>>
>>> Why repeat what is being done elsewhere? The world doesn't need yet
>>> another hardware database.
>>
>> Because if you'd read the links you'd have seen how patchy and outdate=
d
>>     this info tends to be. Another page (joining about six in the worl=
d)
>> would add referencing to the Free hardware options, and, who knows, wi=
th
>> enough attention given it, could rank amongst the best.
>>
>> This kind of flak is why it's a complete waste of time putting the
>> effort into clug, imho.
>
> What flak? I asked "why duplicate effort" and you have answered.
>
> Also I do not believe that there are only 6 web pages in the world
> dedicated to Free Hardware! Thats just not likely, even without googlin=
g.
>

Actually there is an interesting point here too. When is firmware just
part of the hardware? There are many devices that have some form of
embedded software.

Take a wireless card, it has firmware, a little collection of routines
that govern it. If the card works with a Free driver, is the hardware mor=
e
or less Free if:

1. The firmware is hardwired and immutable, so the driver never has to
know much about it; or

2. The firmware is embedded, but can be upgraded by some special operatio=
n
(ie "flashable"); or

3. The firmware is provided as a computer file, and dynamically uploaded
to the card when the driver loads.

Put it another way, does, eg, a hard drive fall foul of the FSF's desire
for open-ness? All that electronics on the hard drive (the Integrated
Drive Electronics of IDE) must have some sort of programming in the way i=
t
is put together. You're not going to convince me that, eg, SMART is
hardwired. The manufacturer is not likely to tell me the details of his
electronics.

Would the IDE drive be OK if there were no flashable elements? Would it
fall foul of RMS if it was flash upgradable? Or if there was a firmware
file that was loaded on startup?

Where does this firmware thing ultimately lead? Is there a consumer devic=
e
today that doesn't have some internal programming? Is a device FSF
friendly if it is "pure" electronics, but FSF unfriendly if some element
of it is changeable by flashing or uploading firmware?

Where is the boundary between hardware and software?