[chbot] Chchrobotics Digest, Vol 159, Issue 4
Graeme Absalom
clock_man_ok at hotmail.com
Sun Dec 6 23:54:18 GMT 2020
Hi All
Still can't see where to change the subject line, so sorry.
The last time i bought Ferric Chloride and Ammonium Persulphate it was from Jaycar.
About the Hydrochloric Acid and Hydrogen Peroxide, this is what commercial companies use and it needs to be heated for a faster reaction. The peroxide oxidises the metal and the acid reacts and carries it away (mind you it has been a long time since I was a chemist). About painting the circuit board and laser etching it, I tried this and the problem was the paint burnt and stayed on leaving a messy edge.
I am a really happy camper. I have two transformers from Molten Media, that are suitably big (current) and deliver about 97 Volts rectified DC. Since I need about 100 Volts this is perfect. Thank you all for your help and advice. Next step is to replace my damaged power resistors.
Graeme Absalom
________________________________
From: Chchrobotics <chchrobotics-bounces at lists.ourshack.com> on behalf of chchrobotics-request at lists.ourshack.com <chchrobotics-request at lists.ourshack.com>
Sent: Monday, 7 December 2020 12:08 PM
To: chchrobotics at lists.ourshack.com <chchrobotics at lists.ourshack.com>
Subject: Chchrobotics Digest, Vol 159, Issue 4
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Today's Topics:
1. Ferric Chloride (Marshland Engineering)
2. Re: Ferric Chloride (Andrew Errington)
3. chemical milling (Mark Atherton)
4. Re: chemical milling (Andrew Errington)
5. Re: chemical milling (ceo at andygardner.com)
6. Re: Ferric Chloride (Volker Kuhlmann)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 08:55:30 +1300
From: "Marshland Engineering" <marshland at marshland.co.nz>
To: chchrobotics at lists.ourshack.com
Subject: [chbot] Ferric Chloride
Message-ID: <546676301295329587 at marshland.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Is this Ferric Chloride still available in NZ ?
I have some ammonium persulfate but FC works at room temperature which makes
it easier.
Cheers Wallace
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:14:32 +1300
From: Andrew Errington <erringtona at gmail.com>
To: marshland at marshland.co.nz, Christchurch Robotics
<chchrobotics at lists.ourshack.com>
Subject: Re: [chbot] Ferric Chloride
Message-ID:
<CAGZkoWRs5KJZh-V7q1vF8wpG1o_n2+ZpQrG98RE7zLbs-vFv_Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Ferric chloride is nasty, and becoming increasingly difficult to get.
Try hydrogen peroxide and hydrochloric acid (or hydrogen peroxide and
vinegar). Instructions on the web. I have tried it and it works.
Andrew
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020, 08:56 Marshland Engineering, <marshland at marshland.co.nz>
wrote:
> Is this Ferric Chloride still available in NZ ?
>
> I have some ammonium persulfate but FC works at room temperature which
> makes
> it easier.
>
> Cheers Wallace
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chchrobotics mailing list Chchrobotics at lists.ourshack.com
> https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics
> Mail Archives: http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/
> Meetings usually 3rd Monday each month. See http://kiwibots.org for
> venue, directions and dates.
> When replying, please edit your Subject line to reflect new subjects.
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 10:43:18 +1300 (NZDT)
From: Mark Atherton <markaren1 at xtra.co.nz>
To: Christchurch Robotics <chchrobotics at lists.ourshack.com>, Andrew
Errington <erringtona at gmail.com>, marshland at marshland.co.nz
Subject: [chbot] chemical milling
Message-ID: <192781036.595444.1607290998666 at webmail.xtra.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thanks Andrew,
The hydrogen peroxide/hydrochloric acid solution looks most interesting; never heard of it before.
My largest complaint back-in-the-day when using Ferric Chloride was the indelible orange-stain that the spills caused.
Anyway, I am looking into chemical-milling some thin copper sheet, and you may have solved one of the issues.
Just wondering about spraying a thin layer of paint on the copper. Removing the 'resist' using a laser cutter, then etching the remaining piece.
Anyone have any experience with a similar process ??
-Mark
> On 07 December 2020 at 09:14 Andrew Errington <erringtona at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ferric chloride is nasty, and becoming increasingly difficult to get.
>
> Try hydrogen peroxide and hydrochloric acid (or hydrogen peroxide and vinegar). Instructions on the web. I have tried it and it works.
>
> Andrew
>
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2020, 08:56 Marshland Engineering, < marshland at marshland.co.nz mailto:marshland at marshland.co.nz > wrote:
>
> > > Is this Ferric Chloride still available in NZ ?
> >
> > I have some ammonium persulfate but FC works at room temperature which makes
> > it easier.
> >
> > Cheers Wallace
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chchrobotics mailing list Chchrobotics at lists.ourshack.com mailto:Chchrobotics at lists.ourshack.com
> > https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics
> > Mail Archives: http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/
> > Meetings usually 3rd Monday each month. See http://kiwibots.org for venue, directions and dates.
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line to reflect new subjects.
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> Chchrobotics mailing list Chchrobotics at lists.ourshack.com
> https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics
> Mail Archives: http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/
> Meetings usually 3rd Monday each month. See http://kiwibots.org for venue, directions and dates.
> When replying, please edit your Subject line to reflect new subjects.
>
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 11:01:10 +1300
From: Andrew Errington <erringtona at gmail.com>
To: Mark Atherton <markaren1 at xtra.co.nz>
Cc: Christchurch Robotics <chchrobotics at lists.ourshack.com>,
marshland at marshland.co.nz
Subject: Re: [chbot] chemical milling
Message-ID:
<CAGZkoWTdDiqDyPo+U=WwcVXhivOkTfv-aJr3eyKkkwthfaAMGg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Mark,
I don't have experience of that technique, but it mentioned a lot as a way
to etch PCBs.
Clean board
Spray paint
Ablate PCB pattern with laser
Etch
Clean off paint
Obviously you are doing the same thing, but without the FR4 substrate.
Apparently copper is highly reflective, so it makes laser cutting more
dangerous as more stray reflections occur. Do not stare at the laser with
remaining eye.
Andrew
PS I have etched PCBs with hydrogen peroxide and vinegar. You also have to
add a bit of salt. Don't put it on your chips though.
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020, 10:43 Mark Atherton, <markaren1 at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> Thanks Andrew,
>
> The hydrogen peroxide/hydrochloric acid solution looks most interesting;
> never heard of it before.
>
> My largest complaint back-in-the-day when using Ferric Chloride was the
> indelible orange-stain that the spills caused.
>
> Anyway, I am looking into chemical-milling some thin copper sheet, and you
> may have solved one of the issues.
>
> Just wondering about spraying a thin layer of paint on the copper.
> Removing the 'resist' using a laser cutter, then etching the remaining
> piece.
>
> Anyone have any experience with a similar process ??
>
> -Mark
>
>
> On 07 December 2020 at 09:14 Andrew Errington <erringtona at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Ferric chloride is nasty, and becoming increasingly difficult to get.
>
> Try hydrogen peroxide and hydrochloric acid (or hydrogen peroxide and
> vinegar). Instructions on the web. I have tried it and it works.
>
> Andrew
>
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2020, 08:56 Marshland Engineering, <
> marshland at marshland.co.nz> wrote:
>
> Is this Ferric Chloride still available in NZ ?
>
> I have some ammonium persulfate but FC works at room temperature which
> makes
> it easier.
>
> Cheers Wallace
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chchrobotics mailing list Chchrobotics at lists.ourshack.com
> https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics
> Mail Archives: http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/
> Meetings usually 3rd Monday each month. See http://kiwibots.org for
> venue, directions and dates.
> When replying, please edit your Subject line to reflect new subjects.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Chchrobotics mailing list Chchrobotics at lists.ourshack.com
> https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics
> Mail Archives: http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/
> Meetings usually 3rd Monday each month. See http://kiwibots.org for
> venue, directions and dates.
> When replying, please edit your Subject line to reflect new subjects.
>
>
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 12:05:25 +1300
From: "ceo at andygardner.com" <ceo at andygardner.com>
To: chchrobotics at lists.ourshack.com
Subject: Re: [chbot] chemical milling
Message-ID: <c9b5702d-d692-335d-b9d5-2de609e0f0bb at andygardner.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Are you milling a channel in the copper or want to eat right through to the other side?
On 7/12/20 10:43 am, Mark Atherton wrote:
> Thanks Andrew,
>
> The hydrogen peroxide/hydrochloric acid solution looks most interesting; never heard of it before.
>
> My largest complaint back-in-the-day when using Ferric Chloride was the indelible orange-stain that the spills caused.
>
> Anyway, I am looking into chemical-milling some thin copper sheet, and you may have solved one of the issues.
>
> Just wondering about spraying a thin layer of paint on the copper. Removing the 'resist' using a laser cutter, then etching the remaining piece.
>
> Anyone have any experience with a similar process ??
>
> -Mark
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 12:08:14 +1300
From: Volker Kuhlmann <list57 at top.geek.nz>
To: Christchurch Robotics <chchrobotics at lists.ourshack.com>
Subject: Re: [chbot] Ferric Chloride
Message-ID: <20201206230814.GA17191 at top.geek.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Ferric chloride is nasty
Yes. Stains forever, and I'm unsure of chemical stability over time.
> Try hydrogen peroxide and hydrochloric acid (or hydrogen peroxide and
> vinegar). Instructions on the web. I have tried it and it works.
I don't recall which hydro... I used exactly many years ago I last
etched a PCB, but I remember switching away from ferric III chloride to
whatever hydro... it was (wasn't there a hydroxide involved too?), and
life became much easier.
I'd take the route Andrew suggests first and not bother with the ferric
stuff any more.
Keep your mouth and teeth watered for pH control, if you do metal
etching a lot, I've heard some artists say it'll strip the enamel off
your teeth eventually. Easy precaution, not worth taking the risk.
Volker
--
Volker Kuhlmann
http://volker.top.geek.nz/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
------------------------------
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