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Hi All</div>
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Still can't see where to change the subject line, so sorry.</div>
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The last time i bought Ferric Chloride and Ammonium Persulphate it was from Jaycar.</div>
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<br>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
About the Hydrochloric Acid and Hydrogen Peroxide, this is what commercial companies use and it needs to be heated for a faster reaction. The peroxide oxidises the metal and the acid reacts and carries it away (mind you it has been a long time since I was a
chemist). About painting the circuit board and laser etching it, I tried this and the problem was the paint burnt and stayed on leaving a messy edge.</div>
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<br>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I am a really happy camper. I have two transformers from Molten Media, that are suitably big (current) and deliver about 97 Volts rectified DC. Since I need about 100 Volts this is perfect. Thank you all for your help and advice. Next step is to replace my
damaged power resistors.</div>
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<br>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Graeme Absalom<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Chchrobotics <chchrobotics-bounces@lists.ourshack.com> on behalf of chchrobotics-request@lists.ourshack.com <chchrobotics-request@lists.ourshack.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 7 December 2020 12:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com <chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Chchrobotics Digest, Vol 159, Issue 4</font>
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<div class="PlainText">Send Chchrobotics mailing list submissions to<br>
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<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Ferric Chloride (Marshland Engineering)<br>
2. Re: Ferric Chloride (Andrew Errington)<br>
3. chemical milling (Mark Atherton)<br>
4. Re: chemical milling (Andrew Errington)<br>
5. Re: chemical milling (ceo@andygardner.com)<br>
6. Re: Ferric Chloride (Volker Kuhlmann)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 08:55:30 +1300<br>
From: "Marshland Engineering" <marshland@marshland.co.nz><br>
To: chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com<br>
Subject: [chbot] Ferric Chloride<br>
Message-ID: <546676301295329587@marshland.co.nz><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<br>
<br>
Is this Ferric Chloride still available in NZ ? <br>
<br>
I have some ammonium persulfate but FC works at room temperature which makes<br>
it easier. <br>
<br>
Cheers Wallace<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:14:32 +1300<br>
From: Andrew Errington <erringtona@gmail.com><br>
To: marshland@marshland.co.nz, Christchurch Robotics<br>
<chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com><br>
Subject: Re: [chbot] Ferric Chloride<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAGZkoWRs5KJZh-V7q1vF8wpG1o_n2+ZpQrG98RE7zLbs-vFv_Q@mail.gmail.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Ferric chloride is nasty, and becoming increasingly difficult to get.<br>
<br>
Try hydrogen peroxide and hydrochloric acid (or hydrogen peroxide and<br>
vinegar). Instructions on the web. I have tried it and it works.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020, 08:56 Marshland Engineering, <marshland@marshland.co.nz><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Is this Ferric Chloride still available in NZ ?<br>
><br>
> I have some ammonium persulfate but FC works at room temperature which<br>
> makes<br>
> it easier.<br>
><br>
> Cheers Wallace<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Chchrobotics mailing list Chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com<br>
> <a href="https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics">https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics</a><br>
> Mail Archives: <a href="http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/">http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/</a><br>
> Meetings usually 3rd Monday each month. See <a href="http://kiwibots.org">http://kiwibots.org</a> for<br>
> venue, directions and dates.<br>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line to reflect new subjects.<br>
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<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 10:43:18 +1300 (NZDT)<br>
From: Mark Atherton <markaren1@xtra.co.nz><br>
To: Christchurch Robotics <chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com>, Andrew<br>
Errington <erringtona@gmail.com>, marshland@marshland.co.nz<br>
Subject: [chbot] chemical milling<br>
Message-ID: <192781036.595444.1607290998666@webmail.xtra.co.nz><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Thanks Andrew,<br>
<br>
The hydrogen peroxide/hydrochloric acid solution looks most interesting; never heard of it before.<br>
<br>
My largest complaint back-in-the-day when using Ferric Chloride was the indelible orange-stain that the spills caused.<br>
<br>
Anyway, I am looking into chemical-milling some thin copper sheet, and you may have solved one of the issues.<br>
<br>
Just wondering about spraying a thin layer of paint on the copper. Removing the 'resist' using a laser cutter, then etching the remaining piece.<br>
<br>
Anyone have any experience with a similar process ??<br>
<br>
-Mark<br>
<br>
<br>
> On 07 December 2020 at 09:14 Andrew Errington <erringtona@gmail.com> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Ferric chloride is nasty, and becoming increasingly difficult to get.<br>
> <br>
> Try hydrogen peroxide and hydrochloric acid (or hydrogen peroxide and vinegar). Instructions on the web. I have tried it and it works.<br>
> <br>
> Andrew<br>
> <br>
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2020, 08:56 Marshland Engineering, < marshland@marshland.co.nz
<a href="mailto:marshland@marshland.co.nz">mailto:marshland@marshland.co.nz</a> > wrote:<br>
> <br>
> > > Is this Ferric Chloride still available in NZ ?<br>
> > <br>
> > I have some ammonium persulfate but FC works at room temperature which makes<br>
> > it easier.<br>
> > <br>
> > Cheers Wallace<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Chchrobotics mailing list Chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com <a href="mailto:Chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com">
mailto:Chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com</a><br>
> > <a href="https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics">https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics</a><br>
> > Mail Archives: <a href="http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/">
http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/</a><br>
> > Meetings usually 3rd Monday each month. See <a href="http://kiwibots.org">
http://kiwibots.org</a> for venue, directions and dates.<br>
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line to reflect new subjects.<br>
> > <br>
> > > _______________________________________________<br>
> Chchrobotics mailing list Chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com<br>
> <a href="https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics">https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics</a><br>
> Mail Archives: <a href="http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/">
http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/</a><br>
> Meetings usually 3rd Monday each month. See <a href="http://kiwibots.org">http://kiwibots.org</a> for venue, directions and dates.<br>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line to reflect new subjects.<br>
> <br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 11:01:10 +1300<br>
From: Andrew Errington <erringtona@gmail.com><br>
To: Mark Atherton <markaren1@xtra.co.nz><br>
Cc: Christchurch Robotics <chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com>,<br>
marshland@marshland.co.nz<br>
Subject: Re: [chbot] chemical milling<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAGZkoWTdDiqDyPo+U=WwcVXhivOkTfv-aJr3eyKkkwthfaAMGg@mail.gmail.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi Mark,<br>
<br>
I don't have experience of that technique, but it mentioned a lot as a way<br>
to etch PCBs.<br>
<br>
Clean board<br>
Spray paint<br>
Ablate PCB pattern with laser<br>
Etch<br>
Clean off paint<br>
<br>
Obviously you are doing the same thing, but without the FR4 substrate.<br>
<br>
Apparently copper is highly reflective, so it makes laser cutting more<br>
dangerous as more stray reflections occur. Do not stare at the laser with<br>
remaining eye.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
PS I have etched PCBs with hydrogen peroxide and vinegar. You also have to<br>
add a bit of salt. Don't put it on your chips though.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020, 10:43 Mark Atherton, <markaren1@xtra.co.nz> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Thanks Andrew,<br>
><br>
> The hydrogen peroxide/hydrochloric acid solution looks most interesting;<br>
> never heard of it before.<br>
><br>
> My largest complaint back-in-the-day when using Ferric Chloride was the<br>
> indelible orange-stain that the spills caused.<br>
><br>
> Anyway, I am looking into chemical-milling some thin copper sheet, and you<br>
> may have solved one of the issues.<br>
><br>
> Just wondering about spraying a thin layer of paint on the copper.<br>
> Removing the 'resist' using a laser cutter, then etching the remaining<br>
> piece.<br>
><br>
> Anyone have any experience with a similar process ??<br>
><br>
> -Mark<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 07 December 2020 at 09:14 Andrew Errington <erringtona@gmail.com><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Ferric chloride is nasty, and becoming increasingly difficult to get.<br>
><br>
> Try hydrogen peroxide and hydrochloric acid (or hydrogen peroxide and<br>
> vinegar). Instructions on the web. I have tried it and it works.<br>
><br>
> Andrew<br>
><br>
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2020, 08:56 Marshland Engineering, <<br>
> marshland@marshland.co.nz> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Is this Ferric Chloride still available in NZ ?<br>
><br>
> I have some ammonium persulfate but FC works at room temperature which<br>
> makes<br>
> it easier.<br>
><br>
> Cheers Wallace<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Chchrobotics mailing list Chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com<br>
> <a href="https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics">https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics</a><br>
> Mail Archives: <a href="http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/">http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/</a><br>
> Meetings usually 3rd Monday each month. See <a href="http://kiwibots.org">http://kiwibots.org</a> for<br>
> venue, directions and dates.<br>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line to reflect new subjects.<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Chchrobotics mailing list Chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com<br>
> <a href="https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics">https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/chchrobotics</a><br>
> Mail Archives: <a href="http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/">http://lists.ourshack.com/pipermail/chchrobotics/</a><br>
> Meetings usually 3rd Monday each month. See <a href="http://kiwibots.org">http://kiwibots.org</a> for<br>
> venue, directions and dates.<br>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line to reflect new subjects.<br>
><br>
><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 12:05:25 +1300<br>
From: "ceo@andygardner.com" <ceo@andygardner.com><br>
To: chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com<br>
Subject: Re: [chbot] chemical milling<br>
Message-ID: <c9b5702d-d692-335d-b9d5-2de609e0f0bb@andygardner.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
<br>
Are you milling a channel in the copper or want to eat right through to the other side?<br>
<br>
On 7/12/20 10:43 am, Mark Atherton wrote:<br>
> Thanks Andrew,<br>
> <br>
> The hydrogen peroxide/hydrochloric acid solution looks most interesting; never heard of it before.<br>
> <br>
> My largest complaint back-in-the-day when using Ferric Chloride was the indelible orange-stain that the spills caused.<br>
> <br>
> Anyway, I am looking into chemical-milling some thin copper sheet, and you may have solved one of the issues.<br>
> <br>
> Just wondering about spraying a thin layer of paint on the copper. Removing the 'resist' using a laser cutter, then etching the remaining piece.<br>
> <br>
> Anyone have any experience with a similar process ??<br>
> <br>
> -Mark<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 12:08:14 +1300<br>
From: Volker Kuhlmann <list57@top.geek.nz><br>
To: Christchurch Robotics <chchrobotics@lists.ourshack.com><br>
Subject: Re: [chbot] Ferric Chloride<br>
Message-ID: <20201206230814.GA17191@top.geek.nz><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
> Ferric chloride is nasty<br>
<br>
Yes. Stains forever, and I'm unsure of chemical stability over time.<br>
<br>
> Try hydrogen peroxide and hydrochloric acid (or hydrogen peroxide and<br>
> vinegar). Instructions on the web. I have tried it and it works.<br>
<br>
I don't recall which hydro... I used exactly many years ago I last<br>
etched a PCB, but I remember switching away from ferric III chloride to<br>
whatever hydro... it was (wasn't there a hydroxide involved too?), and<br>
life became much easier.<br>
<br>
I'd take the route Andrew suggests first and not bother with the ferric<br>
stuff any more.<br>
<br>
Keep your mouth and teeth watered for pH control, if you do metal<br>
etching a lot, I've heard some artists say it'll strip the enamel off<br>
your teeth eventually. Easy precaution, not worth taking the risk.<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Volker Kuhlmann<br>
<a href="http://volker.top.geek.nz/">http://volker.top.geek.nz/</a> Please do not CC list postings to me.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
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Please edit your Subject line to reflect new subjects. <br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of Chchrobotics Digest, Vol 159, Issue 4<br>
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