[chbot] solar roads

[Jasper Mackenzie]

I have/had similar reservations.
  They have had some fairly large public sector grants thus far, and there  
are some exciting features for which solar is just one. Still as great as  
it is to be able to customise the road surface, have active median/other  
lighting, get rid of snow/ice they are still going to be hella expensive!
  Besides that how long before the clever kids have figured out how to hack  
it and sell pirate advertising 8)

But look at their website (saw it before the indegogo) and they answer  
some of the questions... but... there is still something so backyard and  
unscientific about their information that it disturbs me.... Like, dirty  
solar panels... we cleaned one, the other was dirty, but Hey it sill made  
a bunch of power (A table or graph would have been more convincing)...

  ANyway, this may be thread hijacking.

> I pretty much agree with Geoffrey
>
> While flat panel PV is now getting to around the $1/W mark and is getting
> viable for more and more applications, trying to PV a road throws up a
> bunch more challenges.
>
> Engineering is the Art of Compromise. Whenever you have to take on new
> operational parameters you need to give something else away. PV is hard
> enough to make work on rooftops, let alone on the road.
>
> A few points Geoffrey did not raise:
> * These need to be rugged. That means thicker materials. That means
> expensive and lower light penetration, therefore lower efficency.
> * The ideas they put forth here are strange: (eg. Sidewalks covered in  
> the
> stuff, shaded by cherry trees.)
> * Roads are dirty places.
> * Roads and parking lots are busier when the sun shines. That reduces  
> their
> efficiency by a healthy factor.
>
> Looks like a scam site really, gathering funding for something that has a
> lot of "buzz" but is low in utility.
>
> PV is fine for a few % of power, but really has little or no potential to
> be a major (greater than 20%) contributor to power. As long as people  
> want
> power at night, there will need to be more mainstream generation. That
> means the mainstream plants need to be built. Large thermal plants like  
> to
> maintain steady loads - to be efficient anyway - and putting PV on the  
> grid
> messes with that.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Geoff <sdfgeoff at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It's a bad idea.
>>
>> This project has popped up on quite a few sites that I frequent, and  
>> I've
>> answered similarly to all of them:
>>  - The energy used to manufacture them and install them is very very  
>> close
>> to the amount you get out of them over their operating life
>> For a normal solar panel, it's energy payback time is about 7-8 years, a
>> third of it's life. For a solar road compared to a normal panel:
>>  - Shorter cell life (Wear and tear from driving)
>>  - Lower cell efficiency (because it's flat, and scratches)
>>  - Higher manufacturing energy costs (as it needs to be stronger to
>> counter the first point)
>>  - Higher installation energy costs (as there can't be seams, and  
>> existing
>> roads must be pulled up)
>> Using some approximations I figured that solar roads would have only a
>> slight energy saving compared to just using fuel (Energy Payback was  
>> 11-13
>> years of a 15 year life). Put in terms of money, it's not worth it.
>>
>> So I doubt we'll see them anytime soon. Maybe when fuel goes up in  
>> price.
>>
>> Geoffrey
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Peter Ellens <ellensp at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> Off topic, but interesting.
>>>
>>> You guys that know a lot about solar, what do you think of these solar
>>> roads ideas
>>> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solar-roadways#home
>>>
>>>
>>>
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