<div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Don Gould <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:don@bowenvale.co.nz">don@bowenvale.co.nz</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d">Nick Rout wrote:<br>
> I still think its ironic that if the firmware were built in to the<br>
> device (hardwired or burned into PROM or otherwise not user upgradeable)<br>
> it wouldn't be an issue for rms, but the fact it is uploaded from the<br>
> computer into the peripheral device does make it an issue. It seems to<br>
> me that taking rms' arguments to their logical conclusion then our<br>
> hardware and firmware has to be Libre too, otherwise we get stuck with<br>
> "Trusted Computing".<br>
<br>
</div>Trusted computing doesn't sound like something that's good, assuming I<br>
understand the term correctly.<br>
<br>
I have often looked and the insides of something that thought "I wonder<br>
what that's actually doing".<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"></div></blockquote><div><br>from trusted computing wikipedia page<br><br>"With Trusted Computing the computer will consistently behave in
specific ways, and those behaviors will be enforced by hardware and
software. Enforcing this Trusted behavior is achieved by loading the
hardware with a unique ID and unique master key and denying even the
owner of a computer knowledge and control of their own master key.
Trusted Computing is extremely controversial as the hardware is not
merely secured for the owner; enforcing Trusted behavior means it is
secured against the owner as well."<br><br>I did show the short movie found here:<br><br><a href="http://www.lafkon.net/tc/">http://www.lafkon.net/tc/</a><br><br>at a meeting some time ago. Worth a look if you have forgotten or didn't see it.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> I appreciate the need to draw a line,<br>
<br>
</div>Yes. After Saturday I don't actually feel quite so bad about running<br>
Windows on my laptop any more.<br>
</blockquote><div><br>Then I think you got the wrong message.<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
I feel a bit like a "3 pack a day" smoker who has cut back to 1 pack a week.<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> and (if I understand him<br>
> correctly) rms has drawn it somewhere between uploadable firmware and<br>
> fixed firmware. But to my mind his line is practical but not necessarily<br>
> logical.<br>
<br>
> There are moves towards libre hardware solutions:<br>
><br>
> 1. I am aware of the attempted development of an open video card.<br>
><br>
> 2. Beagleboard is an interesting project:<br>
> <a href="http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/beagleboard-149-linux-system" target="_blank">http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/beagleboard-149-linux-system</a><br>
><br>
> See here for a fuller list:<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_hardware" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_hardware</a><br>
<br>
</div>Thanks Nick, those were some good links.<br>
<br>
Anyone know how open the OpenMoko phone project is?</blockquote><div><br>Very I believe. there are schematics of the designs on their website. Of course having a manufacturing plant capable of building a microelectronics device like that is another matter. So is sourcing parts at a good price unless you are buying 10k+ pf them.<br>
<br>Still with a soldering iron and a bit of patience we might be able to build one small enough to carry round in a car :-)<br><br><a href="http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware">http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware</a><br>
<br></div></div><br></div>