[chbot] Quad chock fish challenge

Andrew Dachs dachsa492 at gmail.com
Sat Jul 24 07:58:39 BST 2021 

Yup, agree with Trevor. that’s what my scribblings work out to as well. I had to assume all legs in the bridge are equal otherwise there are 3 equations and four unknowns.
Been fun :-)
Andy

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24/07/2021, at 5:48 PM, Trevor Wignall <zl3adz at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Red-white measures more than black-yellow so that suggests more resistance in series with red and white. If there were 33 Ohms in series with red and white but not black and yellow and all four bridge legs were equal, then to get 700 ohms black-yellow and 766 ohms (to make the maths easier) red-white, the four bridge legs would need to be 700 Ohms. However that would give 525+33 = 558 Ohms for black-red, black-white, yellow-red and yellow-white. 
> A bit of simultaneous equation solving came up with the four legs being 530 Ohms, and 85 Ohms in series with black and yellow and 117.5 Ohms in series with red and white. I am not saying that this is what actually is there, but it does fit all the evidence supplied. Or I have made an error in my maths.
> Trevor
> 
>> On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 9:49 AM Mark Atherton <markaren1 at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>> Hi Martin,
>> 
>> Interesting. I have seen the 33 ohm pad value mentioned in some load-cell manufacturer data (found this morning).
>> 
>> Wallace,
>> 
>> Evil intent? Most interested to know what that might be !!
>> 
>> I will keep poking when time permits; the network is more complex than anticipated, and I have found some interesting reading on the subject.
>> 
>> At the end of the day, the activity is purely academic; quite an interesting puzzle.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > On 24 July 2021 at 09:39 Martin Towers <tinytowers at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Hi Mark,
>> > This may not be a full bridge, it may have 1, 2 or 4 active arms and
>> > precision resistors elsewhere. In the 2 active arm, he dummy arm may
>> > use different values to the active arm.
>> > 
>> > There may also be a trim to bring the reading to zero.
>> > 
>> > Try feeding voltage in across black and yellow and see what you get.
>> > 
>> > As Andrew says it does look like there may simply be 33 Ohms each in
>> > series with black and yellow. Maybe???
>> > 
>> > Martin
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Sat, 2021-07-24 at 06:35 +1200, Mark Atherton wrote:
>> > > Hi Andy,
>> > > 
>> > > What you say is true, but then looking into R1 from the outside
>> > > would 
>> > > result in a different value than R2.
>> > > 
>> > > I am wondering if there are extra components in the network between 
>> > > RED-WH and BLK-YELL that aren't obvious from black-box testing.
>> > > 
>> > > -Mark
>> > > 
>> > > On 24/07/2021 12:42 AM, Andrew Dachs wrote:
>> > > > Hi mark, it’s a bit late and I need a piece of paper but I think
>> > > > the essence is R1 must equal R3, R2 must equal R4 but doesn’t
>> > > > follow that they all have to be the same value. R1 might be
>> > > > different from R2 and R3 different from R4. You’ve done enough
>> > > > measurements to work them all out.
>> > > > Andy
>> > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > Sent from my iPhone
>> > > > 
>> > > > > On 23/07/2021, at 8:37 PM, Mark Atherton <markaren1 at xtra.co.nz>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > Just acquired a small pile of 250kg load-cells, and everything
>> > > > > was going swimmingly until I looked a little too closely.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > A) 5.0V DC excitation voltage is applied between Red and White
>> > > > > wires. At rest, and with respect to White, both Black and Yellow
>> > > > > are at 2.50V. And yes, I have checked that there is 0V between
>> > > > > BLK and YEL. Apply some force to the unit and the bridge
>> > > > > unbalances just as it should and a 100kg or so produces a 12mV
>> > > > > imbalance which sounds about right from previous experience.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > B) With the unit completely disconnected, the resistance looking
>> > > > > between YEL-RED, YEL-WH, BLK-WH and BLK-RED are each 600 ohms ±
>> > > > > sod-all.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > C) I was hoping that I wouldn't be pushing my luck too far by
>> > > > > assuming that each network leg would be 800 ohms. (600R external
>> > > > > = 800R internal in parallel with (3 * 800R internal).
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > D) But alas no, BLK-YEL is 700R and RED-WH is 765R. This rather
>> > > > > implies that the upper resistor pair are different values to the
>> > > > > lower resistor pair. However if that was true, then test A would
>> > > > > not indicate a 50% voltage division.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > Also, if each internal limb was 800R, then there should be 800R
>> > > > > in both cases of D).
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > So clearly applying 5V excitation is different from using an ohm-
>> > > > > meter, so I dropped excitation voltage to 260mV and the mid-point 
>> > > > > voltage was still 50%. I also heated the unit from 17c up to
>> > > > > around 27c without any significant change.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > Swapping polarities of just about everything does not affect
>> > > > > results, so it looks like a purely resistive network (unless
>> > > > > there is something weird about strain-gauges I am unaware of).
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > Also tried exciting BLK-YEL which made no difference. BLK-RED and
>> > > > > BLK-YEL still measured 2.5V each (per A above).
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > I am running out of things to poke at from the outside, and am
>> > > > > quite intrigued about the fundamental (and incorrect) assumption
>> > > > > I have made with all of these tests.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > The units appear to work as expected, but can't find a datasheet
>> > > > > (units are marked 250kg 1420230).
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > Suggestions please.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > -Mark
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > <load cell.gif>
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