[chbot] Robotic Sweepers

Wed Jun 26 07:43:16 BST 2013

I don't think the Roomba and friends are really intended to replace proper 
professional or domestic cleaning. Instead they are intended to just do a bit 
of "in between cleaning" to pick up a few crumbs etc.

We use a Dyson as a regular cleaner. This sucks a HUGE amount out of the 
carpets. When we moved into our new house, the carpets looked clean, but we 
cleaned them anyway and had to empty the dust collector 4 times.

A device the size of the Roomba has many challenges, one of which is sheer 
size. They just don't have enough container volume to clean large areas well. 
No doubt there are also huge liability issues with powerful cleaners. If a 
Roomba caught Fluffy by the tail, the company would no doubt have to pay all 
the pet psychology bills!

-- CHarles

On Tuesday 25 June 2013 22:11:42 Helmut Walle wrote:
> On 25/06/13 19:36, Richard Jones wrote:
> > I noticed that Bunnings have a Robot Sweeper listed in their last
> > catalogue for $99. They seem to be out of stock in the Tower Junction
> > store at the moment. Anyone have views on this style of cleaner? Looks
> > more of a gimick than practical use to me, but it is a lot cheaper
> > than a Roomba and at first glance does the same job. Also not as quick
> > at clearing cans from the table as Lego Mindstorms for those with long
> > memories :-)
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eWeI59_Qpk
> >
> > Richard
>
> [...]
>
> Views? Yes, I have some general views on robotic vacuum cleaners for
> residential environments, and also some specific questions regarding the
> model shown in the video. Just some quick background: about a decade
> ago, I was a commercial cleaner for a few months, and in that role I
> spent ample time vacuuming (for the American readers: hoovering, or for
> the brand-aware: luxing) vast expanses of carpet, polished rock, lino
> and other surfaces. Now the beautiful thing about this kind of job is
> that it doesn't require much thinking, and so you have your mind
> available to contemplate and consider whatever you want. And obviously
> the natural thing for an old telecommunications and embedded systems
> engineer to think about is how to improve the job he is just doing by
> adding a little bit of innovative technology, and that obviously means
> thinking about self-cleaning windows, catalytically cleaning ovens,
> cleaning robots and the likes.
>
> So, at that time I didn't know much about cleaning robots, but I thought
> it would be great to have one to do all this mindless and under-paid
> work. I had a few quick ideas on how to develop suitable robots, but
> being marketing-minded I also went and did a bit of a market survey. I
> found at the time that there were several companies offering cleaning
> robots, some for residential use, some for commercial applications. The
> differences between the available machines were as great as the
> differences in requirements between the two: the robots for residential
> applications looked very much like show-off toys for people with too
> much money, who already have the Audi and the Porsche and the Boat etc.
> and need yet another gimmick to stand out among their equally
> possessions-saturated friends (oh, and if you have any doubt regarding
> the practical usefulness of these machines - Oprah actually gave one
> Roomba to each of the participants of one of her shows back then, and
> there were lots of "Ohs" and "Ahs" from the audience). The machines for
> commercial applications on the other hand were not only much bigger, but
> they clearly looked like they had been designed with one objective in
> mind: to get the job done, to do it well, and to do it fast.
>
> So far, so good - now let's look at some general technical questions
> that I would like to raise, and you can probably answer them yourselves:
>
> * A good vacuum cleaner (just a traditional one, like this model used
> commonly by commercial cleaners:
> https://www.nilfisk.com/en/products/Pages/product.aspx?fid=14963&Name=GD%20
>1005%20220-240V%20EU - and, declaration of conflict of interest: I've got
> absolutely no stakes in Nilfisk, but I have used some of their products,
> and they were good and reliable for what I needed! ) has a rated power of
> somewhere above 1 kW, and according to the spec for this example it will
> suck with 270 W at the end of the tube. Now this is some serious power, and
> it is actually needed when your kids have been playing dress-up party, and
> all the hair from the wigs has gone into the carpet... But with these small
> robotic home vacuum cleaners like the Dirt Devil and others, where is that
> power going to come from? Well, it isn't... Soooo... the suction power of
> these things is probably quite limited, and that will limit their ability
> to clean the more interesting areas.
>
> * A good professional cleaner (a human, that is) actually sees what is
> dirty and what is clean, and they will quickly complete the less dirty
> areas, and treat the badly dirty ones (where the kids have trampled over
> the carpet with their muddy wellies, thus densely compressing the
> liquefied soil into the depths of the carpet) as long and intensely as
> necessary to get them clean. But how does a robot know what's clean and
> what's not? Well, I have a list of ideas of how a robot could know this,
> and I think several of them are quite feasible, but I doubt that many of
> them are implemented in these cheap home vaccuming robots. Soooo.... the
> robot may manage to get everywhere eventually, but does that mean
> everything will be clean?
>
> * With a good vacuum cleaner (see above again for example) I can
> continuously vacuum moderately dirty carpets for several hours before I
> need to replace or empty the dust bag. Now that bag actually takes up
> quite a big volume inside the vacuum cleaner, certainly a multiple of
> the dust compartments of any of these home vacuuming robots. So even if
> they had the suction power to properly clean the floor, how often would
> you have to pick them up to empty the dust compartment? And it is not
> that manufacturers wouldn't have seen this issue: the Kärcher
> Robocleaner (
> http://www.karcher.com/int/Products/Home__Garden/Vacuums/Robocleaner/126910
>10.htm ) for example works with a base station, to which the mobile robot
> automatically returns when it either needs to recharge its battery or feels
> the need to empty the dust into the 2-litre dust compartment of the base
> station (that's about the size of the dust bag of a "normal" vacuum
> cleaner, well, the Nilfisk example above actually has even more than twice
> that much). So they have positively addressed some of the questions and
> concerns. If you are considering other models /
> manufacturers, check how they are addressing these issues...
>
> And now a couple of points more specifically regarding the Dirt Devil:
>
> * It's all very nice to see how clean it sweeps the already very clean
> looking tiled floor. BUT, how does it perform on high-friction
> moderately heavy carpet?
> Oh... I've just looked it up and found that it's not meant to be used on
> carpet at all: it is officially called a "Hard Floor Vacuum" - well that
> means for me personally it's not even worthwhile looking at any further,
> because I am wiping and mopping hard floor, which produces much better
> results than any dry vacuum can. So no carpets with this one...
>
> * If you are still interested, I would recommend reading the customer
> reviews on Amazon:
> http://www.amazon.com/Dirt-Devil-RoomMate-Robotic-Vacuum/product-reviews/B0
>05I5OTTA/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
>
> I haven't read them in much detail but the overall stats do look a bit
> sad to say the least. Look here for a fairly detailed review of the
> Kärcher Robocleaner
> http://www.robotreviews.com/reviews/k%C3%A4rcher-robocleaner-rc3000-review
>
> Well, I could go on, but this is probably enough to give you an idea of
> the kind of points to look at (not meaning to be exhaustive in any way,
> but rather only providing some examples), and to show that a
> conceptually simple thing like cleaning floors actually is mildly
> complex when you look at the practical reality of environments to be
> cleaned and the respective requirements for machines that are supposed
> to do a good job.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Helmut.
>
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