[chbot] Robotic Sweepers

Tue Jun 25 21:52:23 BST 2013

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Helmut Walle <helmut.walle at gmail.com>wrote:

> On 25/06/13 19:36, Richard Jones wrote:
>
>> I noticed that Bunnings have a Robot Sweeper listed in their last
>> catalogue for $99. They seem to be out of stock in the Tower Junction store
>> at the moment. Anyone have views on this style of cleaner? Looks more of a
>> gimick than practical use to me, but it is a lot cheaper than a Roomba and
>> at first glance does the same job. Also not as quick at clearing cans from
>> the table as Lego Mindstorms for those with long memories :-)
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=2eWeI59_Qpk<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eWeI59_Qpk>
>>
>> Richard
>>
> [...]
>
> Views? Yes, I have some general views on robotic vacuum cleaners for
> residential environments, and also some specific questions regarding the
> model shown in the video. Just some quick background: about a decade ago, I
> was a commercial cleaner for a few months, and in that role I spent ample
> time vacuuming (for the American readers: hoovering, or for the
> brand-aware: luxing) vast expanses of carpet, polished rock, lino and other
> surfaces. Now the beautiful thing about this kind of job is that it doesn't
> require much thinking, and so you have your mind available to contemplate
> and consider whatever you want. And obviously the natural thing for an old
> telecommunications and embedded systems engineer to think about is how to
> improve the job he is just doing by adding a little bit of innovative
> technology, and that obviously means thinking about self-cleaning windows,
> catalytically cleaning ovens, cleaning robots and the likes.
>
> So, at that time I didn't know much about cleaning robots, but I thought
> it would be great to have one to do all this mindless and under-paid work.
> I had a few quick ideas on how to develop suitable robots, but being
> marketing-minded I also went and did a bit of a market survey. I found at
> the time that there were several companies offering cleaning robots, some
> for residential use, some for commercial applications. The differences
> between the available machines were as great as the differences in
> requirements between the two: the robots for residential applications
> looked very much like show-off toys for people with too much money, who
> already have the Audi and the Porsche and the Boat etc. and need yet
> another gimmick to stand out among their equally possessions-saturated
> friends (oh, and if you have any doubt regarding the practical usefulness
> of these machines - Oprah actually gave one Roomba to each of the
> participants of one of her shows back then, and there were lots of "Ohs"
> and "Ahs" from the audience). The machines for commercial applications on
> the other hand were not only much bigger, but they clearly looked like they
> had been designed with one objective in mind: to get the job done, to do it
> well, and to do it fast.
>
> So far, so good - now let's look at some general technical questions that
> I would like to raise, and you can probably answer them yourselves:
>
> * A good vacuum cleaner (just a traditional one, like this model used
> commonly by commercial cleaners: https://www.nilfisk.com/en/**
> products/Pages/product.aspx?**fid=14963&Name=GD%201005%**20220-240V%20EU<https://www.nilfisk.com/en/products/Pages/product.aspx?fid=14963&Name=GD%201005%20220-240V%20EU>- and, declaration of conflict of interest: I've got absolutely no stakes
> in Nilfisk, but I have used some of their products, and they were good and
> reliable for what I needed! ) has a rated power of somewhere above 1 kW,
> and according to the spec for this example it will suck with 270 W at the
> end of the tube. Now this is some serious power, and it is actually needed
> when your kids have been playing dress-up party, and all the hair from the
> wigs has gone into the carpet... But with these small robotic home vacuum
> cleaners like the Dirt Devil and others, where is that power going to come
> from? Well, it isn't... Soooo... the suction power of these things is
> probably quite limited, and that will limit their ability to clean the more
> interesting areas.
>
> * A good professional cleaner (a human, that is) actually sees what is
> dirty and what is clean, and they will quickly complete the less dirty
> areas, and treat the badly dirty ones (where the kids have trampled over
> the carpet with their muddy wellies, thus densely compressing the liquefied
> soil into the depths of the carpet) as long and intensely as necessary to
> get them clean. But how does a robot know what's clean and what's not?
> Well, I have a list of ideas of how a robot could know this, and I think
> several of them are quite feasible, but I doubt that many of them are
> implemented in these cheap home vaccuming robots. Soooo.... the robot may
> manage to get everywhere eventually, but does that mean everything will be
> clean?
>
> * With a good vacuum cleaner (see above again for example) I can
> continuously vacuum moderately dirty carpets for several hours before I
> need to replace or empty the dust bag. Now that bag actually takes up quite
> a big volume inside the vacuum cleaner, certainly a multiple of the dust
> compartments of any of these home vacuuming robots. So even if they had the
> suction power to properly clean the floor, how often would you have to pick
> them up to empty the dust compartment? And it is not that manufacturers
> wouldn't have seen this issue: the Kärcher Robocleaner (
> http://www.karcher.com/int/**Products/Home__Garden/Vacuums/**
> Robocleaner/12691010.htm<http://www.karcher.com/int/Products/Home__Garden/Vacuums/Robocleaner/12691010.htm>) for example works with a base station, to which the mobile robot
> automatically returns when it either needs to recharge its battery or feels
> the need to empty the dust into the 2-litre dust compartment of the base
> station (that's about the size of the dust bag of a "normal" vacuum
> cleaner, well, the Nilfisk example above actually has even more than twice
> that much). So they have positively addressed some of the questions and
> concerns. If you are considering other models / manufacturers, check how
> they are addressing these issues...
>
> And now a couple of points more specifically regarding the Dirt Devil:
>
> * It's all very nice to see how clean it sweeps the already very clean
> looking tiled floor. BUT, how does it perform on high-friction moderately
> heavy carpet?
> Oh... I've just looked it up and found that it's not meant to be used on
> carpet at all: it is officially called a "Hard Floor Vacuum" - well that
> means for me personally it's not even worthwhile looking at any further,
> because I am wiping and mopping hard floor, which produces much better
> results than any dry vacuum can. So no carpets with this one...
>
> * If you are still interested, I would recommend reading the customer
> reviews on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Dirt-**
> Devil-RoomMate-Robotic-Vacuum/**product-reviews/B005I5OTTA/**
> ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=**UTF8&showViewpoints=1<http://www.amazon.com/Dirt-Devil-RoomMate-Robotic-Vacuum/product-reviews/B005I5OTTA/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1>
> I haven't read them in much detail but the overall stats do look a bit sad
> to say the least. Look here for a fairly detailed review of the Kärcher
> Robocleaner http://www.robotreviews.com/**reviews/k%C3%A4rcher-**
> robocleaner-rc3000-review<http://www.robotreviews.com/reviews/k%C3%A4rcher-robocleaner-rc3000-review>
>
> Well, I could go on, but this is probably enough to give you an idea of
> the kind of points to look at (not meaning to be exhaustive in any way, but
> rather only providing some examples), and to show that a conceptually
> simple thing like cleaning floors actually is mildly complex when you look
> at the practical reality of environments to be cleaned and the respective
> requirements for machines that are supposed to do a good job.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Helmut.
>

Helmut,

Thanks for such a detailed and thought provoking post. Looks like robotic
vacuum cleaning is not going to be solved by spending $99 at Bunnings this
week. Having read your post, the various reviews and seen the videos
robotic cleaning looks like quite an interesting challenge.

Richard
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