[chbot] Kickstart in FPGA course...

Tue Feb 15 01:45:24 GMT 2011

Hi Charles

Yes, your are right, but as far as I can see the Digilent/Xilinx Kool-aid
an't that bad. 

I dug a little closer (see
http://www.xilinx.com/publications/matrix/Software_matrix.pdf)...

The Xilinx 'no cost' tools ("ISE WebPack") area *supported* on :
- Windows XP (32 & 64 bit0
- Windows Vista (32 & 64 bit)
- Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS 4 (32 & 64 bit)
- Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS 5 (32 & 64 bit)
- SUSE Enterprise Linux 11 (32&64 bit)

My guess is that they will also run on other Linux flavours, but these are
the ones that they are tested on. I currently run it on  Windows 7 (which
isn't officially supported) without issues.

The no-cost toolset only supports smaller and less advanced FPGAs, but a
million logic gates is enough for anybody :-). For example, a PicoBlaze
embedded processor takes only 38 Configurable Logic Blocks (CLB), and my
current board has 4,656 CLBs - so I could stand up over 100 independent
processors.

The only true lock-in that bugs me is that you are not able to choose the
optimizer 'goals', and that simulation runs progressively slower after
50,000 lines are simulated. 

The small boards are still quite useful, depending on how you define
useful - Over at OpenCores you can download a PDP11 design that fits in my
Nexys2  board, if you want to boot a really old UNIX with the platform's
maximum of 4MB of RAM :-). The project I've just finished playing with
plays back 16bit Stereo WAV files from on-board flash at 44,200Hz through a
FPGA implemented 1-bit DAC, with added simple DSP features (well, a two-tap
'echo' reverb), is completely unoptimised and uses only 5% of the FPGA.

I've already got the complete install DVD downloaded, and would burn off
copies for interested people. If you have the DVD image then internet
access is only needed to get a free registration for the 'no-cost' license
to replace the 60 day trial -  Downloading multiple GBs is not fun,
especially when you have a new toy^hol to play with.

The Development board programming tools is a bit more difficult as each
manufacturer has their own tools, but unlike the early days the Diligent
tools are available for Linux from
http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,66,828&Prod=ADEPT2.
Although I am a big Linux fan I haven't programmed my board from Linux. If
this was a deciding factor I could either give it a try, or lend you a
board and DVD to play with. 

Mike

On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 16:20:22 +1300, Charles Manning
<manningc2 at actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> I'm interested too.
> 
> No matter what vendor's kit you choose you will end up with a bias and
> have to 
> drink somebody's Kool Aid.
> 
> When you're playing with FPGAs etc the bigger question is" What's the
deal 
> with tools?" Are those free to download or is that a hidden cost? What
are 
> the limitations? Linux option or Windows only?
> 
> From what I've seen here, this board will work with the free ISE Webpack

> software which requires web access (download code to a server to
compile) 
> which will work with Windows and Linux. 
> http://www.xilinx.com/tools/webpack.htm
> 
> The board's USB download uses some WIndows software. Pity there isn't a
> Linux 
> version.
> 
> -- Charles
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday 13 February 2011 18:31:06 Mark Atherton wrote:
>> Yes, interested.
>>
>> You have a Xilinx bias, but don't forget about Altera and the Quartus
>> II environment.
>>
>> Also don't forget Verilog, which is very C like and has a shallower
>> learning curve than VHDL and much simpler, but quite powerful.
>>
>> Diligent have and Academic  price - AU$65.00, would you be willing to
>> inquire about a bulk (5 ?) price purchase for a CHCH based non-profit
>> educational group (this group).
>>
>> I am sure we can scrounge space at Science Alive or the main library
>> for setup...
>>
>> Keep going.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> At 05:53 p.m. 13/02/2011, hamster wrote:
>> >I haven't seen much traffic on the list, so I don't know if this is
>> >appropriate for the list.
>> >
>> >Is anybody interested in getting a kickstart in learning to use FPGAs?
>> >
>> >I'm toying with the idea of getting four or five people together,
>> >putting
>> >a bulk order for development boards, and then arranging somewhere for
a
>> >few
>> >evenings to get the basics going. Given the flexibility and power I am
>> >amazed
>> >that these devices seem to be shunned as too hard too use.
>> >
>> >I found that getting started was the hard bit - knowing what board to
>> >buy,
>> >  getting the CAD software installed and licensed, getting the first
>> >project running.
>> >
>> >A FPGA board costs under AU$100 for a basic "all-in-one" 100,000 gate
>> >model (eg
>>
>http://www.blackboxconsulting.com.au/product-details/basys2-100k.html),
>> >but
>> >it's the shipping that costs if you order one at a time. If $ are
tight,
>> >you
>> >could go halves with a mate for a board - a lot of time is spent on
your
>> >PC
>> >designing... If anybody wasn't sure if they wanted to buy a board I
>> >could
>> >lend them one.
>> >
>> >Larger/faster/feature-rich boards a not much more expensive, but you
>> >have
>> >to
>> >take care to ensure that your board is supported with the "free to
use"
>> >design tools.
>> >
>> >As for the evenings, I was thinking of putting together a few brief
>> >show & tell  + workshops to do simple projects... an off the top of my
>> >head
>> >topic list would be
>> >- What FPGAs are good at
>> >- Getting the development software installed
>> >- Getting the first project running
>> >- Schematic entry and VHDL design
>> >- An overview of the on-chip resources (clock generators, block RAM
etc)
>> >- Using a development board's resources
>> >- Simulation and debugging
>> >- Implementing FSMs
>> >- Interfacing to other devices
>> >- An overview of really advanced stuff (like calibrated sub-nanosecond
>> >delay lines,
>> >
>> >It would just require to
>> >- bring along your own laptop
>> >- have a basic understanding of digital logic
>> >- have an basic understanding of binary numbers
>> >- familiar with a programming language - VHDL is a bit like Cobol in
>> >it's
>> >verbosity
>> >- ready for a steep learning curve
>> >- A small fee towards room hire, course material (e.g. a few DVDs, a
>> >little printing), and enough to upgrade my board.
>> >- It would be nice if every board was using the same toolset - (I
>> >currently use Xilinx tools).
>> >
>> >Time line would be to start in 6 weeks, or maybe Easter to
>> >allow for organisation and delivery of the dev kits.
>> >
>> >Anybody interested, or know anybody who would be?
>> >
>> >I wonder if I could get some buy-in from a Community College?... I
guess
>> >it is a bit more advanced than "An introduction to digital
photography".
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >
> 
> 
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