From andrew@tug.com Sun Jan 07 13:36:13 2001 Received: from services.ourshack.com ([212.74.28.148] helo=tug.com) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FFzY-000K0p-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Sun, 07 Jan 2001 13:36:13 +0000 Message-ID: <3A5871CE.E115FC64@tug.com> Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 13:40:31 +0000 From: Andrew Beattie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 101admin@ourshack.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [101admin] 101admin list Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: To help us get this together, I've thrown together a mailing list for the folk who will be administering it. I've taken the liberty of subscribing those who are clearly interested, namely: goodwinds2000@my-deja.com ellen@nytestar.com andrew@tug.com rollball@stratos.net ngkites@kitemail.com walbrecht@mmcable.com If you want to host it at ourshack, then we need to register the domain which will require the ourshack nameservers: ns0.ourshack.com 212.74.28.147 ns0.pavilion.net 194.242.128.1 ns1.pavilion.net 194.242.128.2 I vote for kite101.com (not plural, to stuntkite) Anyne care to register it? I'm disinclined to do so myself, because: - It kinda puts me in a leadersip/authority position and I want to step back from that. (but put me down as technical contact my handle is AB227) - I pay for too many domains already... Tell me when it's done and I'll sort out the DNS and put up a "this is empty" page... Andrew-in-Florida -- Andrew Beattie The LAZIEST way to find kite pages ---------> http://www.kitez.com/ ********** Win a T-shirt at http://www.kitez.com/tshirt.html ********** My own stuff (Shona, Chevron, Veronica) ----> http://www.tug.com/ Resources for rec.kites --------------------> http://www.kites.tug.com/ Friendly, flexible host for your net stuff -> http://www.ourshack.com/ From andrew@tug.com Sun Jan 07 13:41:23 2001 Received: from services.ourshack.com ([212.74.28.148] helo=tug.com) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FG4Z-000K2I-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Sun, 07 Jan 2001 13:41:23 +0000 Message-ID: <3A587305.D2870CE8@tug.com> Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 13:45:41 +0000 From: Andrew Beattie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: Re: [101admin] 101admin list References: <3A5871CE.E115FC64@tug.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: BTW, for now, send messages to 101admin@ourshack.com I can change it painlessly to 101admin@kite101.com when we get the domain. -- Andrew Beattie The LAZIEST way to find kite pages ---------> http://www.kitez.com/ ********** Win a T-shirt at http://www.kitez.com/tshirt.html ********** My own stuff (Shona, Chevron, Veronica) ----> http://www.tug.com/ Resources for rec.kites --------------------> http://www.kites.tug.com/ Friendly, flexible host for your net stuff -> http://www.ourshack.com/ From rollball@stratos.net Sun Jan 07 14:42:54 2001 Received: from mail2.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.201]) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FH26-000K8N-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Sun, 07 Jan 2001 14:42:54 +0000 Received: from gfmdp (tnt-1-50.dial.stratos.net [207.54.95.50]) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f077hOM25207 for <101admin@ourshack.com>; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 07:43:24 GMT From: "Joe Ludwig" To: <101admin@ourshack.com> Subject: RE: [101admin] 101admin list Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 09:36:51 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c078b7$46f3b960$325f36cf@gfmdp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3A5871CE.E115FC64@tug.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Andrew, I hate to say this but most of what you guys are discussing goes right over my head. I don't know the first lick about the web design, hosting, etc. Yes, I'm a dinosaur. I can surf for info and thats about all I need to do my job. I'm a manufacturing engineer so if we need to make something (just about anything) I'm the guy. I also fly kites and have managed a few quite successful businesses so if I can add anything I'll try. I understand that I have 10 Meg of personnel web space available from my ISP (free), I found out how to activate it, and I downloaded some stuff on how to make a web page (html) stuff. So if nothing else comes out of this I am going to learn something. Thanks Where in Florida are you? Joseph Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com [mailto:101admin-admin@ourshack.com]On Behalf Of Andrew Beattie Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 8:41 AM To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: [101admin] 101admin list To help us get this together, I've thrown together a mailing list for the folk who will be administering it. I've taken the liberty of subscribing those who are clearly interested, namely: goodwinds2000@my-deja.com ellen@nytestar.com andrew@tug.com rollball@stratos.net ngkites@kitemail.com walbrecht@mmcable.com If you want to host it at ourshack, then we need to register the domain which will require the ourshack nameservers: ns0.ourshack.com 212.74.28.147 ns0.pavilion.net 194.242.128.1 ns1.pavilion.net 194.242.128.2 I vote for kite101.com (not plural, to stuntkite) Anyne care to register it? I'm disinclined to do so myself, because: - It kinda puts me in a leadersip/authority position and I want to step back from that. (but put me down as technical contact my handle is AB227) - I pay for too many domains already... Tell me when it's done and I'll sort out the DNS and put up a "this is empty" page... Andrew-in-Florida -- Andrew Beattie The LAZIEST way to find kite pages ---------> http://www.kitez.com/ ********** Win a T-shirt at http://www.kitez.com/tshirt.html ********** My own stuff (Shona, Chevron, Veronica) ----> http://www.tug.com/ Resources for rec.kites --------------------> http://www.kites.tug.com/ Friendly, flexible host for your net stuff -> http://www.ourshack.com/ _______________________________________________ 101admin mailing list 101admin@ourshack.com http://www.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/101admin From rollball@stratos.net Sun Jan 07 14:51:55 2001 Received: from mail2.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.201]) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FHAp-000K9Q-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Sun, 07 Jan 2001 14:51:55 +0000 Received: from gfmdp (tnt-1-50.dial.stratos.net [207.54.95.50]) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f077qPM27432 for <101admin@ourshack.com>; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 07:52:25 GMT From: "Joe Ludwig" To: <101admin@ourshack.com> Subject: FW: [101admin] 101admin list Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 09:45:53 -0500 Message-ID: <000101c078b8$89960600$325f36cf@gfmdp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Andrew, See what I mean either everybody got it or I just e' myself. I just used reply! Joe -----Original Message----- From: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com [mailto:101admin-admin@ourshack.com] On Behalf Of Joe Ludwig Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 9:37 AM To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: RE: [101admin] 101admin list Andrew, I hate to say this but most of what you guys are discussing goes right over my head. I don't know the first lick about the web design, hosting, etc. Yes, I'm a dinosaur. I can surf for info and thats about all I need to do my job. I'm a manufacturing engineer so if we need to make something (just about anything) I'm the guy. I also fly kites and have managed a few quite successful businesses so if I can add anything I'll try. I understand that I have 10 Meg of personnel web space available from my ISP (free), I found out how to activate it, and I downloaded some stuff on how to make a web page (html) stuff. So if nothing else comes out of this I am going to learn something. Thanks Where in Florida are you? Joseph Ludwig -----Original Message----- From: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com [mailto:101admin-admin@ourshack.com]On Behalf Of Andrew Beattie Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 8:41 AM To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: [101admin] 101admin list To help us get this together, I've thrown together a mailing list for the folk who will be administering it. I've taken the liberty of subscribing those who are clearly interested, namely: goodwinds2000@my-deja.com ellen@nytestar.com andrew@tug.com rollball@stratos.net ngkites@kitemail.com walbrecht@mmcable.com If you want to host it at ourshack, then we need to register the domain which will require the ourshack nameservers: ns0.ourshack.com 212.74.28.147 ns0.pavilion.net 194.242.128.1 ns1.pavilion.net 194.242.128.2 I vote for kite101.com (not plural, to stuntkite) Anyne care to register it? I'm disinclined to do so myself, because: - It kinda puts me in a leadersip/authority position and I want to step back from that. (but put me down as technical contact my handle is AB227) - I pay for too many domains already... Tell me when it's done and I'll sort out the DNS and put up a "this is empty" page... Andrew-in-Florida -- Andrew Beattie The LAZIEST way to find kite pages ---------> http://www.kitez.com/ ********** Win a T-shirt at http://www.kitez.com/tshirt.html ********** My own stuff (Shona, Chevron, Veronica) ----> http://www.tug.com/ Resources for rec.kites --------------------> http://www.kites.tug.com/ Friendly, flexible host for your net stuff -> http://www.ourshack.com/ _______________________________________________ 101admin mailing list 101admin@ourshack.com http://www.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/101admin _______________________________________________ 101admin mailing list 101admin@ourshack.com http://www.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/101admin From andrew@tug.com Sun Jan 07 15:52:17 2001 Received: from services.ourshack.com ([212.74.28.148] helo=tug.com) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FI7E-000KG7-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Sun, 07 Jan 2001 15:52:17 +0000 Message-ID: <3A5891B4.3E770FD3@tug.com> Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 15:56:36 +0000 From: Andrew Beattie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: Re: [101admin] 101admin list References: <000001c078b7$46f3b960$325f36cf@gfmdp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Joe Ludwig wrote: > I hate to say this but most of what you guys are discussing > goes right over my head. Do you want me to take you off the list? > Where in Florida are you? Gainsville today and tomorrow, Orlando the rest of the week. Flying in Santa Fe Community College this afternoon. -- Andrew Beattie The LAZIEST way to find kite pages ---------> http://www.kitez.com/ ********** Win a T-shirt at http://www.kitez.com/tshirt.html ********** My own stuff (Shona, Chevron, Veronica) ----> http://www.tug.com/ Resources for rec.kites --------------------> http://www.kites.tug.com/ Friendly, flexible host for your net stuff -> http://www.ourshack.com/ From ellen@nytestar.com Sun Jan 07 17:49:25 2001 Received: from nu-world.com ([206.58.141.2] ident=root) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FJwa-000KS5-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Sun, 07 Jan 2001 17:49:25 +0000 Received: from nytestar.com (dialup11.nu-world.com [206.58.141.75]) by nu-world.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f07HhIp25101 for <101admin@ourshack.com>; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 09:43:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A58AB5B.A0E6FA7B@nytestar.com> Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 09:46:03 -0800 From: Ellen Smith Organization: PBSK X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 101admin@ourshack.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [101admin] Another name to add? Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Dan Millsip? dmillsip@home.com Ellen From walbrecht@mmcable.com Sun Jan 07 23:37:37 2001 Received: from fe3.rdc-kc.rr.com ([24.94.163.50] helo=mail3.mmcable.com) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FPNY-000L5p-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Sun, 07 Jan 2001 23:37:37 +0000 Received: from beos ([65.26.244.201]) by mail3.mmcable.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Sun, 7 Jan 2001 17:29:15 -0600 From: "Walter Albrecht" To: <101admin@ourshack.com> Subject: RE: [101admin] Another name to add? Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 17:31:44 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3A58AB5B.A0E6FA7B@nytestar.com> Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I think Scotty should come play as well ian@sysconn.com Now we have the question of registering the domain. Is one of us going to step up and do the deed solo? What are our options, can we spread out the cost, and how do we go about continuing to fund its existence. Then we need to consider content, and assignment of responsibility for design and maintenance. Time to go to work kids :) Walter Albrecht http://home.mmcable.com/kitenbike/ leaves dance and twigs sway. currents beacon me to join. I am joy in wind. -----Original Message----- From: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com [mailto:101admin-admin@ourshack.com]On Behalf Of Ellen Smith Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 11:46 AM To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: [101admin] Another name to add? Dan Millsip? dmillsip@home.com Ellen _______________________________________________ 101admin mailing list 101admin@ourshack.com http://www.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/101admin From ellen@nytestar.com Mon Jan 08 00:36:14 2001 Received: from nu-world.com ([206.58.141.2] ident=root) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FQIH-000LC7-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 00:36:14 +0000 Received: from nytestar.com (dialup31.nu-world.com [206.58.141.97]) by nu-world.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f080U6p26448 for <101admin@ourshack.com>; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 16:30:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A590AB2.3C3EBB95@nytestar.com> Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 16:32:51 -0800 From: Ellen Smith Organization: PBSK X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: Re: [101admin] Another name to add? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Walter Albrecht wrote: > > I think Scotty should come play as well ian@sysconn.com Who's Scotty? > Now we have the question of registering the domain. Is one of us going to > step up and do the deed solo? What are our options, can we spread out the > cost, and how do we go about continuing to fund its existence. Who can register it cheapest? Someone is gonna have to serve as admin/billing. Andrew can be the tech since he's furnished the dns #s. > Then we need to consider content, and assignment of responsibility for > design and maintenance. An outline would prolly be a good place to start. When I first suggested this I was thinking along the lines of keeping the content very narrowly defined...ie: stuntkites. It would appear that didn't stick, so how do you see this looking? Ellen From andrew@tug.com Mon Jan 08 01:08:43 2001 Received: from services.ourshack.com ([212.74.28.148] helo=tug.com) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FQni-000LFn-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 01:08:43 +0000 Message-ID: <3A591421.10DFDBC3@tug.com> Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 01:13:05 +0000 From: Andrew Beattie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: Re: [101admin] Another name to add? References: <3A58AB5B.A0E6FA7B@nytestar.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Ellen Smith wrote: > > Dan Millsip? > dmillsip@home.com So invite him. He needs to go to the address which is listed at the bottom of every list message. [Yes, I could do it, but I trust you'll understand that I want others to learn...] -- Andrew Beattie The LAZIEST way to find kite pages ---------> http://www.kitez.com/ ********** Win a T-shirt at http://www.kitez.com/tshirt.html ********** My own stuff (Shona, Chevron, Veronica) ----> http://www.tug.com/ Resources for rec.kites --------------------> http://www.kites.tug.com/ Friendly, flexible host for your net stuff -> http://www.ourshack.com/ From walbrecht@mmcable.com Mon Jan 08 01:38:03 2001 Received: from fe3.rdc-kc.rr.com ([24.94.163.50] helo=mail3.mmcable.com) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FRG7-000LJ5-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 01:38:03 +0000 Received: from beos ([65.26.244.201]) by mail3.mmcable.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Sun, 7 Jan 2001 19:29:41 -0600 From: "Walter Albrecht" To: <101admin@ourshack.com> Subject: RE: [101admin] Another name to add? Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 19:32:11 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <3A590AB2.3C3EBB95@nytestar.com> Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >At last a great thread to reply too..... >What Kiting needs is a good online community portal web site.... (there are >a couple of guys out there doing a great job at the moment, but I feel, >there's room for something special) >"What is a Web Portal" I here you ask; A 'Kite portal' Web community. It >is the most comprehensive, integrated collection of community building >software (database driven) in the industry. Easily manage a business >directory; Membership; ad server, promotions and contests, catalogs, news >and newsletters, events calendars, message boards, personal web page and >more. >If any company is out there interested in sponsoring one... I do have the >database driven web application to create this.... >For more details contact ian@sysconn.com This is Scotty, you can also see some of his work at http://www.its2k.com/doddskites/ Walter Albrecht http://home.mmcable.com/kitenbike/ leaves dance and twigs sway. currents beacon me to join. I am joy in wind. -----Original Message----- From: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com [mailto:101admin-admin@ourshack.com]On Behalf Of Ellen Smith Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 6:33 PM To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: Re: [101admin] Another name to add? Walter Albrecht wrote: > > I think Scotty should come play as well ian@sysconn.com Who's Scotty? > Now we have the question of registering the domain. Is one of us going to > step up and do the deed solo? What are our options, can we spread out the > cost, and how do we go about continuing to fund its existence. Who can register it cheapest? Someone is gonna have to serve as admin/billing. Andrew can be the tech since he's furnished the dns #s. > Then we need to consider content, and assignment of responsibility for > design and maintenance. An outline would prolly be a good place to start. When I first suggested this I was thinking along the lines of keeping the content very narrowly defined...ie: stuntkites. It would appear that didn't stick, so how do you see this looking? Ellen _______________________________________________ 101admin mailing list 101admin@ourshack.com http://www.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/101admin From andrew@tug.com Mon Jan 08 02:00:50 2001 Received: from services.ourshack.com ([212.74.28.148] helo=tug.com) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FRc8-000LQe-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 02:00:50 +0000 Message-ID: <3A592056.6ECD4610@tug.com> Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 02:05:11 +0000 From: Andrew Beattie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: Re: [101admin] Another name to add? References: <3A590AB2.3C3EBB95@nytestar.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Ellen Smith wrote: > Who can register it cheapest? Someone is gonna have to serve as > admin/billing. Andrew can be the tech since he's furnished the dns #s. I usualy pay the same $35 as everyone else does to Networksolutions.com There might be better deals, but on the other hand, everyone knows how to deal with the paperwork with them... > > Then we need to consider content, and assignment of responsibility for > > design and maintenance. I'm thinking something along the lines of a meta-FAQ "You've just got involved in kite flying. Let us whow you the ropes: - Which kite to choose - Where abouts to buy it - How to set it up - Hints and tips for new fliers. - Get in touch with your local scene. Tell us where you are and we'll point you in the direction of: - Local fliers who may be willing to help you get started - Your nearest clubs - Your nearest specialist kite stores - Any manufacturers that happen to be in your locality - Noted flying sites in your area. - The online scene - discussion groups - interactive chat - mailing lists - search engines > An outline would prolly be a good place to start. When I first suggested > this I was thinking along the lines of keeping the content very narrowly > defined...ie: stuntkites. It would appear that didn't stick, so how do > you see this looking? Stuntkites is a good place to start. I'm just trying to think about where we might end up, rather than just the task immediately to hand. -- Andrew Beattie The LAZIEST way to find kite pages ---------> http://www.kitez.com/ ********** Win a T-shirt at http://www.kitez.com/tshirt.html ********** My own stuff (Shona, Chevron, Veronica) ----> http://www.tug.com/ Resources for rec.kites --------------------> http://www.kites.tug.com/ Friendly, flexible host for your net stuff -> http://www.ourshack.com/ From ellen@nytestar.com Mon Jan 08 02:24:01 2001 Received: from nu-world.com ([206.58.141.2] ident=root) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FRyb-000LVX-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 02:24:01 +0000 Received: from nytestar.com (dialup31.nu-world.com [206.58.141.97]) by nu-world.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f082Hnp05910 for <101admin@ourshack.com>; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 18:17:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A5923F2.27864032@nytestar.com> Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 18:20:34 -0800 From: Ellen Smith Organization: PBSK X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: Re: [101admin] Another name to add? References: <3A590AB2.3C3EBB95@nytestar.com> <3A592056.6ECD4610@tug.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Andrew Beattie wrote: > Ellen Smith wrote: > > Who can register it cheapest? Someone is gonna have to serve as > > admin/billing. Andrew can be the tech since he's furnished the dns #s. > > I usualy pay the same $35 as everyone else does to > Networksolutions.com There might be better deals, but on the other > hand, everyone knows how to deal with the paperwork with them... Both Peter and I are eager to assist with contributing content...that's what I would prefer to stick to, but if no one else feels comfie registering the domain I will. Just let me know. > > > > Then we need to consider content, and assignment of responsibility for > > > design and maintenance. > > I'm thinking something along the lines of a meta-FAQ > > "You've just got involved in kite flying. Let us whow you the ropes: > > - Which kite to choose > - Where abouts to buy it > - How to set it up > - Hints and tips for new fliers. > - Get in touch with your local scene. Tell us where you are and > we'll point you in the direction of: > - Local fliers who may be willing to help you get started > - Your nearest clubs > - Your nearest specialist kite stores > - Any manufacturers that happen to be in your locality > - Noted flying sites in your area. > - The online scene > - discussion groups > - interactive chat > - mailing lists > - search engines Excellent outline Andrew. Have you been doing this sort of thing long..tee hee. In reflection, I realize that this is a far better project than trying to resurrect something from days gone by. A fresh new start is really a great idea. We can build on it in the months & years to come. > Stuntkites is a good place to start. I'm just trying to think about > where we might end up, rather than just the task immediately to hand. Ah, a man with a plan. You're growing on me, Gaf. *grin* I have a suggestion to those who are on this mailing list. Perhaps you all would like to add this to your sig file when posting on rec.kites. "Would you like to participate in creating the Kites101 website? You can subscribe to the 101admin mailing list by going to http://www.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/101admin" or something along those lines. Andrew...should we contribute by sending html to you? Tell me what ya want son! Huggz, Ellen From andrew@tug.com Mon Jan 08 02:47:39 2001 Received: from services.ourshack.com ([212.74.28.148] helo=tug.com) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FSLS-000LZz-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 02:47:39 +0000 Message-ID: <3A592B4F.2EBFC35D@tug.com> Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 02:52:00 +0000 From: Andrew Beattie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: Re: [101admin] Another name to add? References: <3A590AB2.3C3EBB95@nytestar.com> <3A592056.6ECD4610@tug.com> <3A5923F2.27864032@nytestar.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Ellen Smith wrote: [Much I agree with] > "Would you like to participate in creating the Kites101 website? You can > subscribe to the 101admin mailing list by going to > http://www.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/101admin" I'd hang fire till the domain is safely registered. As soon as it is, I'll change the address to: http://www.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/101admin > Andrew...should we contribute by sending html to you? Tell me what ya > want son! That'll do. I should write an automatic thingy to take an email and dump the contents straight onto the web page. The more you send me, the more I'll be encouraged to do so :-) -- Andrew Beattie The LAZIEST way to find kite pages ---------> http://www.kitez.com/ ********** Win a T-shirt at http://www.kitez.com/tshirt.html ********** My own stuff (Shona, Chevron, Veronica) ----> http://www.tug.com/ Resources for rec.kites --------------------> http://www.kites.tug.com/ Friendly, flexible host for your net stuff -> http://www.ourshack.com/ From ian@sysconn.com Mon Jan 08 04:11:42 2001 Received: from [208.60.161.27] (helo=default.sysconn) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FTen-000Lme-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 04:11:42 +0000 Received: from Ian (unverified [208.60.161.199]) by default.sysconn (Vircom SMTPRS 4.5.185) with SMTP id for <101admin@ourshack.com>; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:06:27 -0500 From: "Ian Scott" To: <101admin@ourshack.com> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:04:00 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C078FE.1F5EB2A0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [101admin] Hi Guys Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C078FE.1F5EB2A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all... Just a message to let you know that I've just joined this mailing list, so we can get this project moving... Well, let me introduce myself..... I'm Scotty, I'm a web developer for a ISP in Savannah, GA and in my spare time I also design other sites, such as Dodd's www.doddkites.com (yes, I'm a Brit, now living in the U.S.).. As some of you may have read my posts in rec.kites I have been developing a Kite Portal (yes, just like a Yahoo and more!), over the last 6 months, which has taken a lot of my spare time to develop. At the moment most of the backend administration side is complete and is about to be uploaded to one of our work servers. I will also be buying a new domain sometime this week, so I can host it on our Cold Fusion servers... I can show you a same sort of Portal application that another company is using, so you get a idea of what I'm talking about..... Go to http://www.mystamford.net Take a close look at this web site and see the real power of a database driven web portal.... Also check out all the cool features.... This sort of Portal is controlled by an administration section, which anyone can be assigned a username and password to make any updates to the web site (via online forms.... NO programming experience needed... as long as you can fill out a online form, you too can be an administrator.... Take a look and let me know your thoughts Cheers Scotty ian@sysconn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C078FE.1F5EB2A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=20 all...
 
Just = a message to=20 let you know that I've just joined this mailing list, so we can get = this=20 project moving...
 
Well, let me=20 introduce myself..... I'm Scotty, I'm a web developer for a ISP in = Savannah, GA=20 and in my spare time I also design other sites, such as Dodd's www.doddkites.com  (yes, I'm = a Brit, now living in the U.S.)..
 
As = some of you may=20 have read my posts in rec.kites I have been developing a Kite Portal = (yes, just=20 like a Yahoo and more!), over the last 6 months, which has taken a lot = of my=20 spare time to develop.
 
At = the moment most=20 of the backend administration side is complete and is about to be = uploaded to=20 one of our work servers. I will also be buying a new domain sometime = this week,=20 so I can host it on our Cold Fusion servers...
 
I can=20 show you a same sort of Portal application that another company is = using, so you=20 get a idea of what I'm talking about..... Go to http://www.mystamford.net  = Take a=20 close look at this web site and see the real power of a database driven = web=20 portal.... Also check out all the cool features.... This sort of Portal = is=20 controlled by an administration section, which anyone can be assigned a = username=20 and password to make any updates to the web site (via online forms.... = NO=20 programming experience needed... as long as you can fill out a online = form, you=20 too can be an administrator....
 
Take = a look and=20 let me know your thoughts
 
Cheers
Scotty
ian@sysconn.com
 
------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C078FE.1F5EB2A0-- From walbrecht@mmcable.com Mon Jan 08 04:17:49 2001 Received: from fe4.rdc-kc.rr.com ([24.94.163.51] helo=mail4.mmcable.com) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FTki-000LnN-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 04:17:48 +0000 Received: from beos ([65.26.244.201]) by mail4.mmcable.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:09:13 -0600 From: "Walter Albrecht" To: <101admin@ourshack.com> Subject: RE: [101admin] Hi Guys Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:11:58 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C078F6.DA4DE5C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C078F6.DA4DE5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Scotty, Have you checked the archives yet, not a lot to catch up on but still worth looking at. http://www.ourshack.com/pipermail/101admin/2001-January/thread.html Walter Albrecht http://home.mmcable.com/kitenbike/ leaves dance and twigs sway. currents beacon me to join. I am joy in wind. -----Original Message----- From: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com [mailto:101admin-admin@ourshack.com]On Behalf Of Ian Scott Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 10:04 PM To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: [101admin] Hi Guys Hi all... Just a message to let you know that I've just joined this mailing list, so we can get this project moving... Well, let me introduce myself..... I'm Scotty, I'm a web developer for a ISP in Savannah, GA and in my spare time I also design other sites, such as Dodd's www.doddkites.com (yes, I'm a Brit, now living in the U.S.).. As some of you may have read my posts in rec.kites I have been developing a Kite Portal (yes, just like a Yahoo and more!), over the last 6 months, which has taken a lot of my spare time to develop. At the moment most of the backend administration side is complete and is about to be uploaded to one of our work servers. I will also be buying a new domain sometime this week, so I can host it on our Cold Fusion servers... I can show you a same sort of Portal application that another company is using, so you get a idea of what I'm talking about..... Go to http://www.mystamford.net Take a close look at this web site and see the real power of a database driven web portal.... Also check out all the cool features.... This sort of Portal is controlled by an administration section, which anyone can be assigned a username and password to make any updates to the web site (via online forms.... NO programming experience needed... as long as you can fill out a online form, you too can be an administrator.... Take a look and let me know your thoughts Cheers Scotty ian@sysconn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C078F6.DA4DE5C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi= Scotty,

 

Ha= ve you checked the archives yet, not a lot to catch up on but still worth = looking at.  = http://www.ourshack.com/pipermail/101admin/2001-January/thread.htm= l

 

Walter = Albrecht

http://home.mmcable.com/kitenbike/

leaves = dance and twigs sway.  currents = beacon me to join.  I am joy in = wind.           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;        

<= span class=3DEmailStyle17> 

-----Original Message-----
From: = 101admin-admin@ourshack.com [mailto:101admin-admin@ourshack.com]On Behalf Of Ian Scott
Sent: Sunday, January 07, = 2001 10:04 PM
To: = 101admin@ourshack.com
Subject: [101admin] Hi = Guys

 

Hi all...

 <= /p>

Just a message to let you know that I've just joined this mailing list, = so we can get this project moving...<= /p>

 <= /p>

Well, let me introduce myself..... I'm Scotty, I'm a web developer for a ISP = in Savannah, GA and in my spare time I also design other sites, such as = Dodd's www.doddkites.com  (yes, I'm a Brit, now living in the U.S.).. <= /p>

 <= /p>

As some of you may have read my posts in rec.kites I have been developing a = Kite Portal (yes, just like a Yahoo and more!), over the last 6 months, which = has taken a lot of my spare time to develop.<= /p>

 <= /p>

At the moment most of the backend administration side is complete and is = about to be uploaded to one of our work servers. I will also be buying a new = domain sometime this week, so I can host it on our Cold Fusion = servers...<= /p>

 <= /p>

I can show you a same sort of Portal application that another company is = using, so you get a idea of what I'm talking about..... Go to http://www.mystamford.net  = Take a close look at this web site and see the real power of a database driven = web portal.... Also check out all the cool features.... This sort of Portal = is controlled by an administration section, which anyone can be assigned a username and password to make any updates to the web site (via online = forms.... NO programming experience needed... as long as you can fill out a online = form, you too can be an administrator....<= /p>

 <= /p>

Take a look and let me know your thoughts<= /p>

 <= /p>

Cheers<= /font><= /p>

Scotty<= /font><= /p>

ian@sysconn.com<= /p>

 <= /p>

------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C078F6.DA4DE5C0-- From ellen@nytestar.com Mon Jan 08 04:19:49 2001 Received: from nu-world.com ([206.58.141.2] ident=root) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FTme-000Lnn-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 04:19:48 +0000 Received: from nytestar.com (dialup31.nu-world.com [206.58.141.97]) by nu-world.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f084Dfp16040 for <101admin@ourshack.com>; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:13:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A593F1A.B02FC2A7@nytestar.com> Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 20:16:26 -0800 From: Ellen Smith Organization: PBSK X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: Re: [101admin] Hi Guys References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi Ian, Nice to have you onboard here. I think it's pretty safe to say that "we" aren't particularly interested in a corporate style format, but rather one that is simplistic in nature, yet complete in content. Please feel free to continue adding suggestions for content but for now I am completely confident that OurShack will serve the needs of this project quite adequately. Huggz, Ellen > Ian Scott wrote: > > Hi all... > > Just a message to let you know that I've just joined this mailing > list, so we can get this project moving... > > Well, let me introduce myself..... I'm Scotty, I'm a web developer for > a ISP in Savannah, GA and in my spare time I also design other sites, > such as Dodd's www.doddkites.com (yes, I'm a Brit, now living in the > U.S.).. > > As some of you may have read my posts in rec.kites I have been > developing a Kite Portal (yes, just like a Yahoo and more!), over the > last 6 months, which has taken a lot of my spare time to develop. > > At the moment most of the backend administration side is complete and > is about to be uploaded to one of our work servers. I will also be > buying a new domain sometime this week, so I can host it on our Cold > Fusion servers... > > I can show you a same sort of Portal application that another company > is using, so you get a idea of what I'm talking about..... Go to > http://www.mystamford.net Take a close look at this web site and see > the real power of a database driven web portal.... Also check out all > the cool features.... This sort of Portal is controlled by an > administration section, which anyone can be assigned a username and > password to make any updates to the web site (via online forms.... NO > programming experience needed... as long as you can fill out a online > form, you too can be an administrator.... > > Take a look and let me know your thoughts > > Cheers > Scotty > ian@sysconn.com > From andrew@tug.com Mon Jan 08 11:52:32 2001 Received: from services.ourshack.com ([212.74.28.148] helo=tug.com) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Faql-000MZc-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 11:52:32 +0000 Message-ID: <3A59AB08.8D78ED7F@tug.com> Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 11:56:57 +0000 From: Andrew Beattie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: Re: [101admin] Hi Guys References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Ian Scott wrote: > Take a look and let me know your thoughts Hi Scotty! My primary concern about this is that it locks the project in to using propretary and expensive software. Things change. I'm keen to build the thing in such a way that if the the project looses it's home, (the party providing the service may go out of business, or loose interest in kites, or take a business decision that they want to close down this sort of opperation), then the project can up-sticks and move somewhere else. -- Andrew Beattie The LAZIEST way to find kite pages ---------> http://www.kitez.com/ ********** Win a T-shirt at http://www.kitez.com/tshirt.html ********** My own stuff (Shona, Chevron, Veronica) ----> http://www.tug.com/ Resources for rec.kites --------------------> http://www.kites.tug.com/ Friendly, flexible host for your net stuff -> http://www.ourshack.com/ From andrew@tug.com Mon Jan 08 12:00:05 2001 Received: from services.ourshack.com ([212.74.28.148] helo=tug.com) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Fay3-000Mar-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:00:04 +0000 Message-ID: <3A59ACCD.2C3B278C@tug.com> Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:04:29 +0000 From: Andrew Beattie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: Re: [101admin] Hi Guys References: <3A593F1A.B02FC2A7@nytestar.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Ellen Smith wrote: > Nice to have you onboard here. I think it's pretty safe to say that "we" > aren't particularly interested in a corporate style format, but rather > one that is simplistic in nature, yet complete in content. I think there is a lot to be said for consistancy, particularly tools that help to take work from different people and bring it into a house style with a coherent feel. But yes, let's concentrate on content first, and then work on bells and whistles when we have a clearer idea of what the thing it beginning to look like and what the problems are that we need to solve. -- Andrew Beattie The LAZIEST way to find kite pages ---------> http://www.kitez.com/ ********** Win a T-shirt at http://www.kitez.com/tshirt.html ********** My own stuff (Shona, Chevron, Veronica) ----> http://www.tug.com/ Resources for rec.kites --------------------> http://www.kites.tug.com/ Friendly, flexible host for your net stuff -> http://www.ourshack.com/ From ian@sysconn.com Mon Jan 08 14:13:43 2001 Received: from [208.60.161.27] (helo=default.sysconn) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Fd3O-000Mr9-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 14:13:42 +0000 Received: from scotty (unverified [208.60.161.4]) by default.sysconn (Vircom SMTPRS 4.5.185) with SMTP id for <101admin@ourshack.com>; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 09:08:24 -0500 From: "Ian Scott" To: <101admin@ourshack.com> Subject: RE: [101admin] Hi Guys Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 09:02:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3A59AB08.8D78ED7F@tug.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Andrew Got to agree with you on that one.... The Portal idea that I've been working on for 6 months would have to be hosted on a Cold Fusion server, which not all ISP's have.... But with me working for a ISP, I get free hosting for any domains I use.... Just thought this would of cut the costs for this project... Anyway, I'm still going ahead with my project as I still think there is a need for my Web Portal application.... Also, there might be a couple of useful things on my portal you could cross link with to my portal, such as the ability to have a Members Personal Page (registered users can self-publish personal content), Polls and Surveys, Events Calendar, Message Boards, Forums, Threaded Discussions, Online Conferences. Hope you can use some of my skills in this exciting project... Scotty -----Original Message----- From: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com [mailto:101admin-admin@ourshack.com]On Behalf Of Andrew Beattie Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 6:57 AM To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: Re: [101admin] Hi Guys > Ian Scott wrote: > Take a look and let me know your thoughts Hi Scotty! My primary concern about this is that it locks the project in to using propretary and expensive software. Things change. I'm keen to build the thing in such a way that if the the project looses it's home, (the party providing the service may go out of business, or loose interest in kites, or take a business decision that they want to close down this sort of opperation), then the project can up-sticks and move somewhere else. -- Andrew Beattie The LAZIEST way to find kite pages ---------> http://www.kitez.com/ ********** Win a T-shirt at http://www.kitez.com/tshirt.html ********** My own stuff (Shona, Chevron, Veronica) ----> http://www.tug.com/ Resources for rec.kites --------------------> http://www.kites.tug.com/ Friendly, flexible host for your net stuff -> http://www.ourshack.com/ _______________________________________________ 101admin mailing list 101admin@ourshack.com http://www.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/101admin From andrew@tug.com Mon Jan 08 15:22:24 2001 Received: from services.ourshack.com ([212.74.28.148] helo=tug.com) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Fe7r-000MzX-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 15:22:24 +0000 Message-ID: <3A59DC39.8DCB07B0@tug.com> Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 15:26:49 +0000 From: Andrew Beattie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: Re: [101admin] Hi Guys References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Ian Scott wrote: > Also, there might be a couple of useful things on my portal you > could cross link with to my portal Yes. I see the project as being a starting point for new folk. Some of the stuff we'll put together ourselves, but some will be along the lines of "to find out XXX go to YYY" -- Andrew Beattie The LAZIEST way to find kite pages ---------> http://www.kitez.com/ ********** Win a T-shirt at http://www.kitez.com/tshirt.html ********** My own stuff (Shona, Chevron, Veronica) ----> http://www.tug.com/ Resources for rec.kites --------------------> http://www.kites.tug.com/ Friendly, flexible host for your net stuff -> http://www.ourshack.com/ From ellen@nytestar.com Mon Jan 08 22:54:34 2001 Received: from nu-world.com ([206.58.141.2] ident=root) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FlBR-000Npv-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Mon, 08 Jan 2001 22:54:34 +0000 Received: from nytestar.com (dialup31.nu-world.com [206.58.141.97]) by nu-world.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f08MmNp17500 for <101admin@ourshack.com>; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:48:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A5A445A.BF20264F@nytestar.com> Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 14:51:06 -0800 From: Ellen Smith Organization: PBSK X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 101admin@ourshack.com References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [101admin] Re: [101admin] Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: So, anyone ready to make a decision as to domain name registration? Also, since it's come up. Andrew and I have discussed this privately. Since this site is going to be public domain, there is no reason why KiteLife can't use part or all of the information if they like, just like anyone else could. But since KiteLife is a commercial entity with copyrighted material I personally don't feel that they should house the primary site from the onset. It would create confusion, if ya know what I mean. I've been a long time fan of Andrew's work and have complete faith that he and the others at OurShack will take VERY good care of us. Peter and I have discussed the possibility of donating a kite for a raffle to raise whatever funds are required to pay Ourshack. Whattya think? Ellen From rollball@stratos.net Tue Jan 09 00:32:27 2001 Received: from mail2.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.201]) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Fmi1-000Nzq-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Tue, 09 Jan 2001 00:32:17 +0000 Received: from gfmdp (tnt-1-152.dial.stratos.net [207.54.95.152]) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f08HWhM67746 for <101admin@ourshack.com>; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:32:43 GMT From: "Joe Ludwig" To: <101admin@ourshack.com> Subject: RE: [101admin] Re: [101admin] Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:26:01 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c079d2$bf0bf9a0$985f36cf@gfmdp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3A5A445A.BF20264F@nytestar.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: all, Donating a kite is very generous. Since you all are operating at a higher level of web than me I have taken the liberties of contacting my local organization to get copy into the next newsletter notifying members that "something" is in the works (prime for teachers). I also have the member database on the way to me (loose leaf paper) so a simple question that I might be able to work on: The active instrustor list will be in what data base? Access? What info to include, name, local, zip, e', phone, other? I could do this. Unless someone already has it done. Joe -----Original Message----- From: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com [mailto:101admin-admin@ourshack.com]On Behalf Of Ellen Smith Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 5:51 PM To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: [101admin] Re: [101admin] So, anyone ready to make a decision as to domain name registration? Also, since it's come up. Andrew and I have discussed this privately. Since this site is going to be public domain, there is no reason why KiteLife can't use part or all of the information if they like, just like anyone else could. But since KiteLife is a commercial entity with copyrighted material I personally don't feel that they should house the primary site from the onset. It would create confusion, if ya know what I mean. I've been a long time fan of Andrew's work and have complete faith that he and the others at OurShack will take VERY good care of us. Peter and I have discussed the possibility of donating a kite for a raffle to raise whatever funds are required to pay Ourshack. Whattya think? Ellen _______________________________________________ 101admin mailing list 101admin@ourshack.com http://www.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/101admin From dan@renweb.net Tue Jan 09 06:46:08 2001 Received: from mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com ([24.2.10.84]) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14FsXo-000Oo4-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Tue, 09 Jan 2001 06:46:08 +0000 Received: from cr847114-a.lngly1.bc.wave.home.com ([24.115.75.190]) by mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010109063949.ZGAD25505.mail1.rdc2.bc.home.com@cr847114-a.lngly1.bc.wave.home.com> for <101admin@ourshack.com>; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 22:39:49 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20010108223511.0080ee60@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: dmillsip/mail.lngly1.bc.wave.home.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 22:35:11 -0800 To: 101admin@ourshack.com From: Dan Millsip Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [101admin] A few things for your consideration Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi All, First of all, I think this idea is a great one. A site such as the one being discussed here would have been a great help to me and would have saved me a lot of time when I first started flying kites.=20 Thanks Ellen, for suggesting my name be added to your list. Originally, I thought I would make this a private communication between those of you who have posted regarding starting a new site for novice kiters but since you've taken the initiative to start this new discussion group I've posted it here. I'm was going to mail this privately because I don't want to come across as a 'know-it-all' on rec.kites and hope that I don't come across that way here. I do however, posses a pretty vast knowledge of building websites as I have been developing websites professionally every day for the past six years (since all pages were grey). I do know what works and what is a waste of time. At the risk of sounding like I'm patting myself on the back, all of my sites have done extremely well and have achieved all the goals of their intended purpose.=20 My intent here is to prepare you for the amount of work, time and planning that it will take to construct a successful website, i.e., a reality check. This is a culmination of my experiences of building websites that work. Feel free to ignore what I've posted here if you choose, I'm sure that from what I've seen so far that you will all make this project work one way or another. So here goes: Planning for a website is no small undertaking -- it's a lot of work and to make it successful requires a great deal of thought, not only for the information that will be included, but also how that information will be presented. Consideration also needs to be given for the maintenance of the site including regular updates, associated costs, and a plan for the future.=20 I don't have a great deal of time available to work on this project (in fact, I have very little) but can offer some things to think about before you jump in with both feet. Bear in mind that most sites fail because there wasn't any planning done in the initial stages -- planning is critical to the success of a project -- you must know where it is going and how you're going to get there *before* you start. This is paramount. If it's not done, the project will quickly lose direction and if you're lucky, it will fail quickly. If you're not lucky, it will die a slow, miserable death. Having said this, following are my thoughts on a new website for people new to kiting. When I first meet with a potential client I ask the following=20 questions: 1.) DETERMINE THE PURPOSE Why do you want to build a website? This question has been answered in RK. There's an obvious lack of a website for beginners to kiting. What is the site intended for?=20 In this case it seems to me that the purpose of the site is to offer information that will assist new kite fliers in the beginning stages of their involvement as well as offering information that will keep them interested as thier skill level develops (say, to an intermediate level). Who is the site intended for? Obviously, it's intended for those new to kiting, but who are they? Where are they? Profiles of a typical user need to be determined based on sex, age, geographic location, financial status -- perhaps a questionnaire at RK would offer some useful user profile information -- but maybe not as (I assume) most people on RK are already into kiting. These profiles will be used to determine the method of presenting the information. There's no point in building a site that is very technical in nature if the intended audience are kids between the ages of 10-16 years. This is not what will capture their attention. I can assume that the target market for this site will be a wide age group (20-50+ years). Likewise, it wouldn't be prudent to build a graphics heavy site if the average user does not have a high-speed connection (when I build a site primarily for a Canadian audience, I increase the maximum allowable file sizes as Canadians have the fastest per capita Internet connections in the world). 2.) DETERMINE GOALS What do you want the site to accomplish? This is probably the most difficult phase of a new site and requires the most focus. Goals are VERY important. If none are put forth you will have no way to determine if you have been successful (And you DO want to know when it's time to lift a glass to everyone involved!) What are the primary goals that you are hoping to achieve? How do you intend to achieve those goals? What are the secondary goals? i.e., long term. When setting goals it's important to make sure that you can reach them. Set them too high and you'll only find disappointment. How will you measure success of the site? This question is important because you need to know when your work is done. Will success be rated on the traffic (unique visitors), user feedback, number of sites that link to it? Or a combination of all of these. Or something else entirely? 3.) DETERMINE THE CONTENT REQUIREMENTS I've been reading with great interest all that has been posted and there are some great ideas. My advice here is to start small. Make the goals simple and easy to achieve. If you try to build everything into the site at the beginning it will lead to problems -- learn to manage the basics first and then add new features as the previous ones are managed efficiently. You can always add to the site later. Is the site going to be static or will the information be updated on a regular basis?=20 Static sites are much easier to look after. This project sounds to me that it will be a mix of both. Obviously, any database features such as searchable lists of retail outlets are not considered static. Kite reviews and basic instructional information for people just getting into kiting will probably not change very often and are static (once you've explained how to tie a larks head knot you will never have to change it again).=20 Technical requirements are another big factor -- obviously the more features that can be automated, i.e., no maintenance is required, the better. But bear in mind that automated systems generally take a significant amount of time and effort to implement properly. They also require a lot more technical expertise. I'm a big supporter of automated systems but only if they are done in a manner that is easy for the user to use. What type of content features can be automated? The "Flying Buddies" directory should obviously be automated. It should also be searchable by geographic area. Yes, a clickable image map would look nice but is it really necessary? It's a lot of work to create graphic maps for a small geographic area, never mind the entire planet. My recommendation would be to make this a text based feature (it would also make it more bandwidth friendly). It's something that I would develop at a date after the site is up and running smoothly. Same goes for club and store locations directory. Another feature that is very important is an automated system to check for website addresses that are no longer current. As many of you are no doubt aware, clubs (and to a lesser degree, retail outlets), are notoriously transient on the web -- a link that works today may not work tomorrow. It's a major job to ensure that all links from a site are working correctly -- and people will lose faith in a site if too many links don't work. I looked at the list that Andrew posted and think this is a step in the right direction: - Which kite to choose - Where abouts to buy it - How to set it up - Hints and tips for new fliers. - Get in touch with your local scene. Tell us where you are and we'll point you in the direction of: - Local fliers who may be willing to help you get started - Your nearest clubs - Your nearest specialist kite stores - Any manufacturers that happen to be in your locality - Noted flying sites in your area. - The online scene - discussion groups - interactive chat - mailing lists - search engines My recommendation here would be to start out with the first four items (with a few more added, see below) -- get this up and running and then continue on to each of the other items step by step. This will directly tie into the Goals portion of this post. The success of the first four items will be easy to determine -- strictly by the amount of traffic that the site attracts. If the success is determined adequate, then move on to the next item(s). Further to this, I would strongly suggest implementing a mail list at the very outset. Oddly enough, Mail lists are the most under used features of a website. They give you the best indication of how many people are actually using the site seriously (generally, if I can attract 5-10% of all visitors to a site to join the mail list it's considered a huge success). Mail lists can also be used to bring people back to the site when new features are added. Repeat visits are considered gold in my business. Mail lists can also be a great source of building future content for a site -- consider if you send out regular mail with a new tip or two in each issue -- before long you've got a good foundation for more content that can be added to the site. In a situation like this one, I would develop a long term plan to implement the features that are decided on. I think a reasonable time for the items above would be a period of about a year (maybe even two). This will allow the site to progress without being overwhelming to those who are administering it. And on the grand scale of things, a year or two is not that long to do something right (bear in mind that when it comes to determining a website construction schedule that I always triple the estimate -- and that's with full time people working on it!). Basically, make the intitial phases of the site easy to build and maintain, i.e., static information. Find out if there is indeed a need for a site like this and if there is, then go nuts with other types of features. Other items that I would include to Andrew's list would be: - Common sense rules. - An explanation of the wind window. - An explanation of determining wind speed. - How to prepare for, and do field repairs. - How many beers to pack in the cooler for a six hour day at the beach :-) -- maybe not! I'm certain that this group can come up with a number of items that could be added to this list while keeping the information basically static. 4.) DETERMINE WHO WILL PROVIDE THE CONTENT This is a biggy. As everyone knows, content is king on the web but who is going to write it? I'm sure that many in this forum are very capable as far as kiting knowledge goes, but writing can be a whole other thing. Who will provide illustrations, drawings, photos, etc.? We also need someone to edit the content for spelling and grammar (will the site use UK or US spelling conventions? -- not a big deal but it needs to be asked.) The content also needs to have credibility -- credibility brings traffic. I assume that credibility is not going to be a problem with this group (assuming that everyone can agree on what is right and what is wrong). 5.) DETERMINE A MARKETING STRATEGY How will you promote the site? There are several REALLY EFFECTIVE ways that I have found that work well on the web. 1.) E-mail others with related sites and ask them to provide a link. 2.) Enter the site into web design award contests (some of the awards that my sites have won have brought in excess of 3,000 unique visitors to the site in a single day). 3.) Search engine listings -- there are a lot of little tricks to get better listings. 4.) Mail Lists -- develop a regular schedule for sending out to the mail list. 5.) Banners with the web address at festivals 6.) Business cards with the web address to hand out while on the field (I really liked this one!) Hmmm... maybe a downloadable pdf file that can be printed on a laser printer... 6.) DETERMINE A MAINTENANCE STRATEGY Even a static site will require a minimal amount of maintenance. Who will do these updates? Who will be responsible for adding/writing new content? A schedule should be developed to determine when new information should be included. I would suggest a new item be added at least each month. 7.) DETERMINE FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS Who is going to pay? You've already run into this one. The domain name is only the beginning. There will be other considerations in the future. At some point the technical resources of the group will not be adequate for the features that you want to add. Is there an organization that might consider throwing a few bucks into the kitty to pay for some of the initial costs? It wouldn't take a whole lot of money, but I would say to kick things off two or three hundred dollars would be nice. I'd hate to see this idea falter because something was needed for 50 bucks and no one is willing to pay for it. Just a suggestion, but perhaps Kitelife would be a good one to approach -- Mike already provides a lot of information for the serious flyer -- and would seem the logical next place on the web for someone to go once they've got everything that they can from this site. I realize that there is a desire not to include commercial advertising on the site (and to a great extent, I agree), but a few links to Kitelife.com may not be a bad idea. It may also be a good way for the kiting community to give back to Mike for what he has given to the kite community. ---- Well folks, there's my two cents worth (or is more like a nickels worth?). Anyway, I really do think that the idea is a good one and I applaud all of you for taking it to the point that you already have. And although it may seem that I'm giving you more to think about than you might think is necessary, it's been my experience that those who don't consider all of the above items don't make it. I've walked away from many web jobs because the client hasn't given enough consideration to these items -- even if the money is there, I won't take a job on unless I think the client is willing to do what's necessary in the planning stages (it happens a lot more than you would think). From what I've read in rec.kites and in this forum, all of you appear to have the passion to make this work and as I've said, I unfortunately have very little time available to contribute here. I would however, be more than willing to participate as a consultant if you want. Forgive me if I don't respond right away to any replies to this message as I'm working like a dog to get Ray Bethell's site online by the 10th of this month -- only two more sleeps. I promise I'll reply once I've finished up there. Thanks for taking time to read this post. BTW: My vote would be for www.kites101.com with the 's'. But I'd also get kite101.com and do a redirect, just in case. Uh Oh... there's another $35 US to start this up. Best regards, -Dan. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Millsip =20 Renaissance Web Creation Inc. Website: http://www.renweb.net/ 23195 96th Ave, PO Box 836 Tel/Fax: 604-513-1192 Fort Langley, BC V1M 2S2 E-mail: dan@renweb.net From ian@sysconn.com Tue Jan 09 07:22:14 2001 Received: from [208.60.161.27] (helo=default.sysconn) by dog.ourshack.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ft6j-000Orp-00 for 101admin@ourshack.com; Tue, 09 Jan 2001 07:22:13 +0000 Received: from Ian (unverified [208.60.161.199]) by default.sysconn (Vircom SMTPRS 4.5.185) with SMTP id for <101admin@ourshack.com>; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 02:16:58 -0500 From: "Ian Scott" To: <101admin@ourshack.com> Subject: RE: [101admin] A few things for your consideration Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 02:14:30 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C079E1.E6228B80" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010108223511.0080ee60@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com Errors-To: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com X-BeenThere: 101admin@ourshack.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0rc1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: 101admin@ourshack.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Admin for Kites101.com <101admin.ourshack.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C079E1.E6228B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dan I couldn't agree with you more.... Your questionnaire is very similar to the one we give to new clients who want to have a online presence on the internet.... I've lost count how many new clients that we have had walking into our company with the attitude of "I want a bit of this internet... I need a web site"... without have any idea of what they are trying to do or sell..... From one web professional to another, you are exactly right in everything you said in your email.... I've been planning and coding my Kite Portal (using Cold Fusion) for at least six months. This to some people might seem like a long time, but like yourself I too have a great deal of experience in not only designing but also the other side of web marketing and research that goes into making a successful web site... On example, was another web site I own Brits Online, ( www.britsonline.com ) I started this site as a hobby after work to help fellow Brits in the US like myself. The site is basically a Online Resource Center... Scotty -----Original Message----- From: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com [mailto:101admin-admin@ourshack.com]On Behalf Of Dan Millsip Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 1:35 AM To: 101admin@ourshack.com Subject: [101admin] A few things for your consideration Hi All, First of all, I think this idea is a great one. A site such as the one being discussed here would have been a great help to me and would have saved me a lot of time when I first started flying kites. Thanks Ellen, for suggesting my name be added to your list. Originally, I thought I would make this a private communication between those of you who have posted regarding starting a new site for novice kiters but since you've taken the initiative to start this new discussion group I've posted it here. I'm was going to mail this privately because I don't want to come across as a 'know-it-all' on rec.kites and hope that I don't come across that way here. I do however, posses a pretty vast knowledge of building websites as I have been developing websites professionally every day for the past six years (since all pages were grey). I do know what works and what is a waste of time. At the risk of sounding like I'm patting myself on the back, all of my sites have done extremely well and have achieved all the goals of their intended purpose. My intent here is to prepare you for the amount of work, time and planning that it will take to construct a successful website, i.e., a reality check. This is a culmination of my experiences of building websites that work. Feel free to ignore what I've posted here if you choose, I'm sure that from what I've seen so far that you will all make this project work one way or another. So here goes: Planning for a website is no small undertaking -- it's a lot of work and to make it successful requires a great deal of thought, not only for the information that will be included, but also how that information will be presented. Consideration also needs to be given for the maintenance of the site including regular updates, associated costs, and a plan for the future. I don't have a great deal of time available to work on this project (in fact, I have very little) but can offer some things to think about before you jump in with both feet. Bear in mind that most sites fail because there wasn't any planning done in the initial stages -- planning is critical to the success of a project -- you must know where it is going and how you're going to get there *before* you start. This is paramount. If it's not done, the project will quickly lose direction and if you're lucky, it will fail quickly. If you're not lucky, it will die a slow, miserable death. Having said this, following are my thoughts on a new website for people new to kiting. When I first meet with a potential client I ask the following questions: 1.) DETERMINE THE PURPOSE Why do you want to build a website? This question has been answered in RK. There's an obvious lack of a website for beginners to kiting. What is the site intended for? In this case it seems to me that the purpose of the site is to offer information that will assist new kite fliers in the beginning stages of their involvement as well as offering information that will keep them interested as thier skill level develops (say, to an intermediate level). Who is the site intended for? Obviously, it's intended for those new to kiting, but who are they? Where are they? Profiles of a typical user need to be determined based on sex, age, geographic location, financial status -- perhaps a questionnaire at RK would offer some useful user profile information -- but maybe not as (I assume) most people on RK are already into kiting. These profiles will be used to determine the method of presenting the information. There's no point in building a site that is very technical in nature if the intended audience are kids between the ages of 10-16 years. This is not what will capture their attention. I can assume that the target market for this site will be a wide age group (20-50+ years). Likewise, it wouldn't be prudent to build a graphics heavy site if the average user does not have a high-speed connection (when I build a site primarily for a Canadian audience, I increase the maximum allowable file sizes as Canadians have the fastest per capita Internet connections in the world). 2.) DETERMINE GOALS What do you want the site to accomplish? This is probably the most difficult phase of a new site and requires the most focus. Goals are VERY important. If none are put forth you will have no way to determine if you have been successful (And you DO want to know when it's time to lift a glass to everyone involved!) What are the primary goals that you are hoping to achieve? How do you intend to achieve those goals? What are the secondary goals? i.e., long term. When setting goals it's important to make sure that you can reach them. Set them too high and you'll only find disappointment. How will you measure success of the site? This question is important because you need to know when your work is done. Will success be rated on the traffic (unique visitors), user feedback, number of sites that link to it? Or a combination of all of these. Or something else entirely? 3.) DETERMINE THE CONTENT REQUIREMENTS I've been reading with great interest all that has been posted and there are some great ideas. My advice here is to start small. Make the goals simple and easy to achieve. If you try to build everything into the site at the beginning it will lead to problems -- learn to manage the basics first and then add new features as the previous ones are managed efficiently. You can always add to the site later. Is the site going to be static or will the information be updated on a regular basis? Static sites are much easier to look after. This project sounds to me that it will be a mix of both. Obviously, any database features such as searchable lists of retail outlets are not considered static. Kite reviews and basic instructional information for people just getting into kiting will probably not change very often and are static (once you've explained how to tie a larks head knot you will never have to change it again). Technical requirements are another big factor -- obviously the more features that can be automated, i.e., no maintenance is required, the better. But bear in mind that automated systems generally take a significant amount of time and effort to implement properly. They also require a lot more technical expertise. I'm a big supporter of automated systems but only if they are done in a manner that is easy for the user to use. What type of content features can be automated? The "Flying Buddies" directory should obviously be automated. It should also be searchable by geographic area. Yes, a clickable image map would look nice but is it really necessary? It's a lot of work to create graphic maps for a small geographic area, never mind the entire planet. My recommendation would be to make this a text based feature (it would also make it more bandwidth friendly). It's something that I would develop at a date after the site is up and running smoothly. Same goes for club and store locations directory. Another feature that is very important is an automated system to check for website addresses that are no longer current. As many of you are no doubt aware, clubs (and to a lesser degree, retail outlets), are notoriously transient on the web -- a link that works today may not work tomorrow. It's a major job to ensure that all links from a site are working correctly -- and people will lose faith in a site if too many links don't work. I looked at the list that Andrew posted and think this is a step in the right direction: - Which kite to choose - Where abouts to buy it - How to set it up - Hints and tips for new fliers. - Get in touch with your local scene. Tell us where you are and we'll point you in the direction of: - Local fliers who may be willing to help you get started - Your nearest clubs - Your nearest specialist kite stores - Any manufacturers that happen to be in your locality - Noted flying sites in your area. - The online scene - discussion groups - interactive chat - mailing lists - search engines My recommendation here would be to start out with the first four items (with a few more added, see below) -- get this up and running and then continue on to each of the other items step by step. This will directly tie into the Goals portion of this post. The success of the first four items will be easy to determine -- strictly by the amount of traffic that the site attracts. If the success is determined adequate, then move on to the next item(s). Further to this, I would strongly suggest implementing a mail list at the very outset. Oddly enough, Mail lists are the most under used features of a website. They give you the best indication of how many people are actually using the site seriously (generally, if I can attract 5-10% of all visitors to a site to join the mail list it's considered a huge success). Mail lists can also be used to bring people back to the site when new features are added. Repeat visits are considered gold in my business. Mail lists can also be a great source of building future content for a site -- consider if you send out regular mail with a new tip or two in each issue -- before long you've got a good foundation for more content that can be added to the site. In a situation like this one, I would develop a long term plan to implement the features that are decided on. I think a reasonable time for the items above would be a period of about a year (maybe even two). This will allow the site to progress without being overwhelming to those who are administering it. And on the grand scale of things, a year or two is not that long to do something right (bear in mind that when it comes to determining a website construction schedule that I always triple the estimate -- and that's with full time people working on it!). Basically, make the intitial phases of the site easy to build and maintain, i.e., static information. Find out if there is indeed a need for a site like this and if there is, then go nuts with other types of features. Other items that I would include to Andrew's list would be: - Common sense rules. - An explanation of the wind window. - An explanation of determining wind speed. - How to prepare for, and do field repairs. - How many beers to pack in the cooler for a six hour day at the beach :-) -- maybe not! I'm certain that this group can come up with a number of items that could be added to this list while keeping the information basically static. 4.) DETERMINE WHO WILL PROVIDE THE CONTENT This is a biggy. As everyone knows, content is king on the web but who is going to write it? I'm sure that many in this forum are very capable as far as kiting knowledge goes, but writing can be a whole other thing. Who will provide illustrations, drawings, photos, etc.? We also need someone to edit the content for spelling and grammar (will the site use UK or US spelling conventions? -- not a big deal but it needs to be asked.) The content also needs to have credibility -- credibility brings traffic. I assume that credibility is not going to be a problem with this group (assuming that everyone can agree on what is right and what is wrong). 5.) DETERMINE A MARKETING STRATEGY How will you promote the site? There are several REALLY EFFECTIVE ways that I have found that work well on the web. 1.) E-mail others with related sites and ask them to provide a link. 2.) Enter the site into web design award contests (some of the awards that my sites have won have brought in excess of 3,000 unique visitors to the site in a single day). 3.) Search engine listings -- there are a lot of little tricks to get better listings. 4.) Mail Lists -- develop a regular schedule for sending out to the mail list. 5.) Banners with the web address at festivals 6.) Business cards with the web address to hand out while on the field (I really liked this one!) Hmmm... maybe a downloadable pdf file that can be printed on a laser printer... 6.) DETERMINE A MAINTENANCE STRATEGY Even a static site will require a minimal amount of maintenance. Who will do these updates? Who will be responsible for adding/writing new content? A schedule should be developed to determine when new information should be included. I would suggest a new item be added at least each month. 7.) DETERMINE FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS Who is going to pay? You've already run into this one. The domain name is only the beginning. There will be other considerations in the future. At some point the technical resources of the group will not be adequate for the features that you want to add. Is there an organization that might consider throwing a few bucks into the kitty to pay for some of the initial costs? It wouldn't take a whole lot of money, but I would say to kick things off two or three hundred dollars would be nice. I'd hate to see this idea falter because something was needed for 50 bucks and no one is willing to pay for it. Just a suggestion, but perhaps Kitelife would be a good one to approach -- Mike already provides a lot of information for the serious flyer -- and would seem the logical next place on the web for someone to go once they've got everything that they can from this site. I realize that there is a desire not to include commercial advertising on the site (and to a great extent, I agree), but a few links to Kitelife.com may not be a bad idea. It may also be a good way for the kiting community to give back to Mike for what he has given to the kite community. ---- Well folks, there's my two cents worth (or is more like a nickels worth?). Anyway, I really do think that the idea is a good one and I applaud all of you for taking it to the point that you already have. And although it may seem that I'm giving you more to think about than you might think is necessary, it's been my experience that those who don't consider all of the above items don't make it. I've walked away from many web jobs because the client hasn't given enough consideration to these items -- even if the money is there, I won't take a job on unless I think the client is willing to do what's necessary in the planning stages (it happens a lot more than you would think). From what I've read in rec.kites and in this forum, all of you appear to have the passion to make this work and as I've said, I unfortunately have very little time available to contribute here. I would however, be more than willing to participate as a consultant if you want. Forgive me if I don't respond right away to any replies to this message as I'm working like a dog to get Ray Bethell's site online by the 10th of this month -- only two more sleeps. I promise I'll reply once I've finished up there. Thanks for taking time to read this post. BTW: My vote would be for www.kites101.com with the 's'. But I'd also get kite101.com and do a redirect, just in case. Uh Oh... there's another $35 US to start this up. Best regards, -Dan. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Millsip Renaissance Web Creation Inc. Website: http://www.renweb.net/ 23195 96th Ave, PO Box 836 Tel/Fax: 604-513-1192 Fort Langley, BC V1M 2S2 E-mail: dan@renweb.net _______________________________________________ 101admin mailing list 101admin@ourshack.com http://www.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/101admin ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C079E1.E6228B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=20 Dan
 
I=20 couldn't agree with you more.... Your questionnaire is very similar to = the one=20 we give to new clients who want to have a online presence on the = internet....=20
 
I've=20 lost count how many new clients that we have had walking into our = company with=20 the attitude of "I want a bit of this internet... I need a web site"... = without=20 have any idea of what they are trying to do or = sell.....
 
From=20 one web professional to another, you are exactly right in everything you = said in=20 your email....
 
I've=20 been planning and coding my Kite Portal (using Cold Fusion) for at least = six=20 months. This to some people might seem like a long time, but like = yourself=20 I too have a great deal of experience in not only designing but also the = other=20 side of web marketing and research that goes into making a successful = web=20 site...
 
On example, was=20 another web site I own Brits Online, ( www.britsonline.com ) I started = this site=20 as a hobby after work to help fellow Brits in the US like = myself. The site=20 is basically a Online Resource Center...
 
Scotty

 
 
 -----Original=20 Message-----
From: 101admin-admin@ourshack.com=20 [mailto:101admin-admin@ourshack.com]On Behalf Of Dan=20 Millsip
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 1:35 AM
To:=20 101admin@ourshack.com
Subject: [101admin] A few things for = your=20 consideration
Hi All,

First of all, I think this idea is a great = one. A=20 site such as the one being discussed here would have been a great help = to me=20 and would have saved me a lot of time when I first started flying = kites.=20

Thanks Ellen, for suggesting my name be added to your=20 list.

Originally, I thought I would make this a private = communication=20 between those of you who have posted regarding starting a new site for = novice=20 kiters but since you've taken the initiative to start this new = discussion=20 group I've posted it here. I'm was going to mail this privately = because I=20 don't want to come across as a 'know-it-all' on rec.kites and hope = that I=20 don't come across that way here. I do however, posses a pretty vast = knowledge=20 of building websites as I have been developing websites professionally = every=20 day for the past six years (since all pages were grey). I do know what = works=20 and what is a waste of time. At the risk of sounding like I'm patting = myself=20 on the back, all of my sites have done extremely well and have = achieved all=20 the goals of their intended purpose.

My intent here is to = prepare you=20 for the amount of work, time and planning that it will take to = construct a=20 successful website, i.e., a reality check. This is a culmination of my = experiences of building websites that work. Feel free to ignore what = I've=20 posted here if you choose, I'm sure that from what I've seen so far = that you=20 will all make this project work one way or another.

So here=20 goes:

Planning for a website is no small undertaking -- it's a = lot of=20 work and to make it successful requires a great deal of thought, not = only for=20 the information that will be included, but also how that information = will be=20 presented. Consideration also needs to be given for the maintenance of = the=20 site including regular updates, associated costs, and a plan for the = future.=20

I don't have a great deal of time available to work on this = project=20 (in fact, I have very little) but can offer some things to think about = before=20 you jump in with both feet. Bear in mind that most sites fail because = there=20 wasn't any planning done in the initial stages -- planning is critical = to the=20 success of a project -- you must know where it is going and how you're = going=20 to get there *before* you start. This is paramount. If it's not done, = the=20 project will quickly lose direction and if you're lucky, it will fail = quickly.=20 If you're not lucky, it will die a slow, miserable = death.

Having said=20 this, following are my thoughts on a new website for people new to=20 kiting.

When I first meet with a potential client I ask the = following=20 questions:


1.) DETERMINE THE PURPOSE

Why do you want = to=20 build a website?
This question has been answered in RK. There's an = obvious=20 lack of a website for beginners to kiting.

What is the site = intended=20 for?
In this case it seems to me that the purpose of the site is = to offer=20 information that will assist new kite fliers in the beginning stages = of their=20 involvement as well as offering information that will keep them = interested as=20 thier skill level develops (say, to an intermediate level).

Who = is the=20 site intended for?
Obviously, it's intended for those new to = kiting, but=20 who are they? Where are they? Profiles of a typical user need to be = determined=20 based on sex, age, geographic location, financial status -- perhaps a=20 questionnaire at RK would offer some useful user profile information = -- but=20 maybe not as (I assume) most people on RK are already into kiting. = These=20 profiles will be used to determine the method of presenting the = information.=20 There's no point in building a site that is very technical in nature = if the=20 intended audience are kids between the ages of 10-16 years. This is = not what=20 will capture their attention. I can assume that the target market for = this=20 site will be a wide age group (20-50+ years). Likewise, it wouldn't be = prudent=20 to build a graphics heavy site if the average user does not have a = high-speed=20 connection (when I build a site primarily for a Canadian audience, I = increase=20 the maximum allowable file sizes as Canadians have the fastest per = capita=20 Internet connections in the world).


2.) DETERMINE = GOALS

What=20 do you want the site to accomplish?
This is probably the most = difficult=20 phase of a new site and requires the most focus. Goals are VERY = important. If=20 none are put forth you will have no way to determine if you have been=20 successful (And you DO want to know when it's time to lift a glass to = everyone=20 involved!) What are the primary goals that you are hoping to achieve? = How do=20 you intend to achieve those goals? What are the secondary goals? i.e., = long=20 term. When setting goals it's important to make sure that you can = reach them.=20 Set them too high and you'll only find disappointment.

How will = you=20 measure success of the site?
This question is important because you = need to=20 know when your work is done. Will success be rated on the traffic = (unique=20 visitors), user feedback, number of sites that link to it? Or a = combination of=20 all of these. Or something else entirely?


3.) DETERMINE THE = CONTENT=20 REQUIREMENTS

I've been reading with great interest all that has = been=20 posted and there are some great ideas. My advice here is to start = small. Make=20 the goals simple and easy to achieve. If you try to build everything = into the=20 site at the beginning it will lead to problems -- learn to manage the = basics=20 first and then add new features as the previous ones are managed = efficiently.=20 You can always add to the site later.

Is the site going to be = static or=20 will the information be updated on a regular basis?
Static sites = are much=20 easier to look after. This project sounds to me that it will be a mix = of both.=20 Obviously, any database features such as searchable lists of retail = outlets=20 are not considered static. Kite reviews and basic instructional = information=20 for people just getting into kiting will probably not change very = often and=20 are static (once you've explained how to tie a larks head knot you = will never=20 have to change it again).

Technical requirements are another = big=20 factor -- obviously the more features that can be automated, i.e., no=20 maintenance is required, the better. But bear in mind that automated = systems=20 generally take a significant amount of time and effort to implement = properly.=20 They also require a lot more technical expertise. I'm a big supporter = of=20 automated systems but only if they are done in a manner that is easy = for the=20 user to use.

What type of content features can be = automated?
The=20 "Flying Buddies" directory should obviously be automated. It should = also be=20 searchable by geographic area. Yes, a clickable image map would look = nice but=20 is it really necessary? It's a lot of work to create graphic maps for = a small=20 geographic area, never mind the entire planet. My recommendation would = be to=20 make this a text based feature (it would also make it more bandwidth=20 friendly). It's something that I would develop at a date after the = site is up=20 and running smoothly. Same goes for club and store locations = directory.=20 Another feature that is very important is an automated system to check = for=20 website addresses that are no longer current. As many of you are no = doubt=20 aware, clubs (and to a lesser degree, retail outlets), are notoriously = transient on the web -- a link that works today may not work tomorrow. = It's a=20 major job to ensure that all links from a site are working correctly = -- and=20 people will lose faith in a site if too many links don't = work.

I looked=20 at the list that Andrew posted and think this is a step in the right=20 direction:

- Which kite to choose
- Where abouts to buy = it
- How=20 to set it up
- Hints and tips for new fliers.
- Get in touch = with your=20 local scene. Tell us where you are and
we'll point you in the = direction=20 of:
- Local fliers who may be willing to help you get started
- = Your=20 nearest clubs
- Your nearest specialist kite stores
- Any = manufacturers=20 that happen to be in your locality
- Noted flying sites in your = area.
-=20 The online scene
- discussion groups
- interactive chat
- = mailing=20 lists
- search engines

My recommendation here would be to = start out=20 with the first four items (with a few more added, see below) -- get = this up=20 and running and then continue on to each of the other items step by = step. This=20 will directly tie into the Goals portion of this post. The success of = the=20 first four items will be easy to determine -- strictly by the amount = of=20 traffic that the site attracts. If the success is determined adequate, = then=20 move on to the next item(s). Further to this, I would strongly suggest = implementing a mail list at the very outset. Oddly enough, Mail lists = are the=20 most under used features of a website. They give you the best = indication of=20 how many people are actually using the site seriously (generally, if I = can=20 attract 5-10% of all visitors to a site to join the mail list it's = considered=20 a huge success). Mail lists can also be used to bring people back to = the site=20 when new features are added. Repeat visits are considered gold in my = business.=20 Mail lists can also be a great source of building future content for a = site --=20 consider if you send out regular mail with a new tip or two in each = issue --=20 before long you've got a good foundation for more content that can be = added to=20 the site.

In a situation like this one, I would develop a long = term=20 plan to implement the features that are decided on. I think a = reasonable time=20 for the items above would be